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Guy: one, the first draft of anything is shit.

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Guy: Welcom to Service Design Principles. I'm
Guy Martin, joined by the author of the Service

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Design Principle series of books, the founder of
the Swiss Innovation Academy and Service design

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Practitioner. The effusive aniele CatalanottoD

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Daniele: Hi Guy, it's such a pleasure to be here
with you.

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Guy: Me too. each episode we're going to look at
one of the principles from from your book

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Service Design Principles 1 to 100. And today
it's principle number one. The first draft of

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anything is shit. Now, some listeners may
recognize this as a quote from Ernest Hemingway,

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the recipient of the Nobel Prize for Literature
in 1954. But it's since become a bit of a

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foundation of service design. Why is that,
Daniele.

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Daniele: So I think in Service Design often what
we try to do is we try to put out stuff so that

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we then see how people react to it. And what we
know is that basically whatever we show to

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people, people will always tell us the same
thing. Oh, interesting. But and then do you have

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a lot of information about all this stuff that
you did wrong? And so it's kind of this

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realization that whatever you do and whatever
you put out, even if you worked on a lot of it,

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it's still a first draft for people who see it,
and therefore it's still something that is

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pretty shitty. And therefore understanding that
helps us to go in a way that we say, Let's move

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the first draft much further, much nearer to to
us and not wait too long because we know it's

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going to be shit for people anyways. And so it's
just being the first thing that we want outside

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and then have people react to it and which we
know they will say it's shit. And from that we

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can then improve based on their feedback.

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Guy: So it's kind of like giving the liberty to
just get started. Like,

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Daniele: Exactly.

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Guy: don't don't have any excuse to delay.

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Daniele: Yeah. You know, it's kind of this thing
where you say, Anyways, it will be shit. So it

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just just go, you know, because it's okay, you
know, And it's it has kind of this is a very

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liberating thing when you when you tell somebody,
ah, you know, we will not show it. You know,

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it's like when you say when you record something
and you say we we're going to record it, but we

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not going to publishing it.

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Guy: Right.

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Daniele: And then what happens is people are
very free, you know, and they express all the

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things. And then maybe at the end you say, now
we have the recording, would you like us to do

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something with it? And it was quite good that
yeah, it was quite good, you know. So sometimes

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it just takes out depression.

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Guy: Righ. And actually, it's it's. It's kind of
the intent is relative, right? It's not that,

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the first draft is shit in isolation of
everything else, because it could actually be

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quite good, that first draft. But in relation to
what you're going to end up with, your final

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result, t final draft, after you've done all of
the revisions and editing in comparison, maybe

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it looks a bit shit.

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Daniele: Yeah,

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Guy: So I think that's a trap I've fallen into
where I think, okay, well my first draft is

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pretty good. Well, I don't need to revise it.
Right. But that's not the purpose.

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Daniele: I would say, you know, as any rules,
you know, these services and principles,

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sometimes people say they are rules which, which
is a thing that I don't like so much because for

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me they are kind of like starting points and
little provocations. You know, they are

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formulated as like little advices, but as with
every advice, you know, when your mum told you

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to not do something, you know, sometimes you
just did the opposite and you learn something

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from it. But having heard your mom saying you to
not do something sometimes was very good for you

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to, to then learn by yourself. And so here I
wouldn't say that in every case, you know, the

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first draft is shit, but by believing it, it
definitely helps us to put stuff out. And it

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happened to me that, you know, the first draft
was in fact a very good solution. But knowing

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that, believing that the first draft is shit
pushed me to make a second draft, pushed me to

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make another proposition.

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Guy: Right.

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Daniele: And then when people just come back and
say, you know, the first one was the right one,

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you have then the confidence that indeed it was
the right one because you had you have tested a

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few things. You have tried to improve A maybe
you come back to the first idea, which is okay,

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but you then have the confidence of knowing it's
a good one because I've tested enough and the

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danger of not having that sentence or that idea
in your mind is you're going to do something and

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you're going to believe it's perfect.

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Guy: Mm hmm.

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Daniele: And so you're going to assume it's
going to be perfect. And so you invest money,

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for example, in marketing and stuff. And then
but your idea isn't that perfect.

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Guy: Right.

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Daniele: And sometimes yes, sometimes no. So
believing it's always shit is maybe easier to to

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manage that than believing it's always great and

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Guy: Mm

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Daniele: being

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Guy: hmm.

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Daniele: disappointed 99% of the time.

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Guy: Right. Makes perfect sense.

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Guy: So I guess for people listening, maybe
there's an action they can take here If they're

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delaying starting something, If they're sort of
putting things off or if they think, oh, I'm not

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quite good enough at this yet or something like
this. Maybe just go draft something, make that

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first shitty draft. Start editing it. Doing a
second draft can only happen once you've done

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that first one. So get that

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Daniele: Exactly.

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Guy: out of the way

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Daniele: And share it.

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Guy: and share it?.

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Daniele: Yeah. You know, and there is the this
is the one thing that I've learned is like

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people often think they should only share the
final version.

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Guy: Mm hmm.

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Daniele: But there is so much more today to to
get from sharing that first shitty draft

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Guy: Okay.

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Daniele: because this is something that I've
learned, which is, you know, the principles that

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you've read in the book.

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Guy: Mm hmm.

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Daniele: They came out as blog articles first,
you know, without proofreading, without me even

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rereading the article back in

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Guy: Right.

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Daniele: the days, I would just write it in one
go and hit publish. But then what happens?

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Because it was just for me to say, I have this
idea, I'm going to put it out in the world. And

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I'm and so I have a kind of like a way to find
them back,

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Guy: Mm hmm.

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Daniele: which was good. But then what happened
is these first draft, you know, people started

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to react to them. Peo started to say, Oh, this
is quite interesting. Oh, I would add this. I

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would add that. And then it started to for me to
realization, Oh, this could be something more

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than what I thought.

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Guy: Mm hmm.

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Daniele: And so putting out the first draft
usually also gives you also a bit of a of a kick

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because other people recognize what could be the
value of it. If there was a second draft. If

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what if if there was a third draft. But you know
sometimes I don't know. You know, I was limited

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in my in my imagination by saying this would be
a blog article, but then people coming back to

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it and saying, Oh, this is quite good, this is
quite good, this is quite good, this is quite

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good at this. Okay, now I have enough to make a
book called It could be a book, you know, and

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that's kind of why I'm saying not

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Guy: Yeah.

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Daniele: not only do

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Guy: Mm

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Daniele: a first

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Guy: hmm.

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Daniele: draft, but also share it because people
would react to it and show the hidden value that

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you don't realize because we are all evaluating
ourselves.

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Guy: Okay. I wouldn't have shared my first draft,
But maybe that's something I need to to start

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doing. Is I would usually write the first draft
and go, okay, that's out of the way. I can throw

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that in the bin. And now I'll go on with my
revisions and then I'll share the revision. what

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you're saying makes make sense. You get feedback
very early and you can you can change direction

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early in the piece if you need to. and also get
the validation, I guess, to say, yes, it is a

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good idea. It is. You're in the right direction,
so maybe you don't need to throw

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Daniele: Yeah.

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Guy: it out. So that's very insightful.

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Daniele: And sometimes sharing doesn't mean it's
shared with the world. Sometimes sharing means

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just sharing it with a co-worker, with a friend,

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Guy: Right?

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Daniele: you know, That's obviously the level of
sharing is also dependent on on on how how

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dangerous it can be to share. You know,
sometimes

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Guy: Mm hmm.

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Daniele: it's it's might not be as smart as to
share everything. You know, if you're building a

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service, you don't want to impact the lives of
people who write that way with something that

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that isn't perfect,

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Guy: Mm hmm.

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Daniele: obviously, but share it already with a
small group of people who you trust and who

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trust you. They can give you some very good
feedback that you don't imagine.

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Guy: thanks Thanks Daniele and thanks to
everyone listening. And we'll see you in the

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next episode, which is principal number two.

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Daniele: thanks, Guy. Was a pleasure.