1 00:00:00,185 --> 00:00:03,395 Guy: Three. Make it easy for customers to come back. 2 00:00:05,885 --> 00:00:09,785 Guy: Welcome to Service Design Principles, I'm Guy Martin, Joined by the author of the Service 3 00:00:09,785 --> 00:00:13,955 Design Principles series of books. Founder of the Swiss Innovation Academy and Service Design 4 00:00:13,955 --> 00:00:16,275 Practitioner, the energetic Daniele Catalanotto. 5 00:00:17,265 --> 00:00:19,759 Daniele: Hi Guy, it's such a pleasure to hear your voice again. 6 00:00:20,298 --> 00:00:24,398 Guy: Thank you very much. Now, each episode, if you're new to this podcast, we look at one of 7 00:00:24,398 --> 00:00:30,108 the principles from from your book. Daniel The Service Design Principles 1 to 100. And today 8 00:00:30,108 --> 00:00:35,298 it's principle number three. Make it easy for customers to come back. Now, if you want to turn 9 00:00:35,298 --> 00:00:40,427 a first time customer into a repeat customer, you have to make it easy. So instead of starting 10 00:00:40,427 --> 00:00:45,497 with the ideal situation where we're making it easy for customers to come back, can you give an 11 00:00:45,497 --> 00:00:50,613 example of where this doesn't happen? What's the negative example? Where are people or businesses 12 00:00:50,567 --> 00:00:52,277 making it hard for customers to come 13 00:00:52,277 --> 00:00:52,577 Guy: back? 14 00:00:52,844 --> 00:00:57,994 Daniele: Okay. So a good example is in Swiss in Switzerland, we have this thing where every year 15 00:00:58,264 --> 00:01:02,704 you have to decide where you put your health insurance again, 16 00:01:02,737 --> 00:01:03,007 Guy: Okay. 17 00:01:03,274 --> 00:01:07,534 Daniele: because every year the prices change. And a lot of us,you know, just move to the 18 00:01:07,534 --> 00:01:12,484 cheapest one every year and as the cheapest one is very different every year, we just have to 19 00:01:12,484 --> 00:01:13,234 change every year. 20 00:01:13,221 --> 00:01:13,491 Guy: Mm hmm. 21 00:01:13,474 --> 00:01:17,704 Daniele: But what happens and this happened to me this year is that sometimes you come back to 22 00:01:17,704 --> 00:01:19,774 one that you already have been to. 23 00:01:19,868 --> 00:01:20,168 Guy: Right 24 00:01:21,064 --> 00:01:27,454 Daniele: And so what happens is that I have to refill all the same stuff then I had to fill two 25 00:01:27,454 --> 00:01:33,184 years ago, you know, and it's like, but you already have that kind of information. So and I 26 00:01:33,184 --> 00:01:40,774 have been already a customer, and so why can't I just say, Hey, I'm back, it's okay. Or the same 27 00:01:40,774 --> 00:01:44,224 happens, you know, with phone companies. We have the same thing with phone companies in 28 00:01:44,224 --> 00:01:51,754 Switzerland where from mobile mobile plans, you know, they some one year is the cheapest one is 29 00:01:51,754 --> 00:01:54,454 in that one and the next year it's another one. And 30 00:01:54,377 --> 00:01:54,647 Guy: Mm hmm. 31 00:01:54,664 --> 00:01:59,914 Daniele: so basically you've been almost any of us have been the customer of all of them at one 32 00:01:59,914 --> 00:02:04,984 time in our life. But every time you go back, they will just say, okay, I have to make a 33 00:02:04,984 --> 00:02:05,584 completely new 34 00:02:05,584 --> 00:02:06,214 Daniele: profile for 35 00:02:06,037 --> 00:02:06,487 Guy: Right. 36 00:02:06,214 --> 00:02:06,364 Daniele: you. 37 00:02:06,687 --> 00:02:08,527 Guy: Oh, I get this with hotels. 38 00:02:08,598 --> 00:02:08,868 Daniele: Yeah. 39 00:02:09,007 --> 00:02:13,777 Guy: Like, I go in, I visit our hotel. I've made the booking. They have all the information. I'm 40 00:02:13,777 --> 00:02:18,937 a loyalty customer, even at some of these places. Right. So they have more than the normal 41 00:02:18,937 --> 00:02:23,557 business would have about me. And I come up to the desk and they give me the registration card, 42 00:02:23,557 --> 00:02:28,717 and it's completely empty. So you already have this information. Why do I have to fill out my 43 00:02:28,717 --> 00:02:33,697 name again and my address and, you know, my phone number and my passport number and. But you 44 00:02:33,697 --> 00:02:37,957 already have this. Why couldn't you just print this out and I'll sign it for you, or even let 45 00:02:37,957 --> 00:02:43,567 me sign it digitally or something like this? It's so frustrating. So it makes me less likely, 46 00:02:43,567 --> 00:02:48,367 even though my loyalty customer, to say, well, what's what's the benefit of my my loyalty here? 47 00:02:48,367 --> 00:02:54,607 Why did I set up his profile if it's no use and I have to spend all this time refilling out all 48 00:02:54,607 --> 00:02:56,137 of this information, it's so frustrating. 49 00:02:56,322 --> 00:03:00,882 Daniele: And then and obviously, you know, people will tell us. Yeah, but it's, it's 50 00:03:00,882 --> 00:03:07,602 because of the privacy goes, you know and, and then I'm not a I'm not a legal expert, but I 51 00:03:07,602 --> 00:03:14,382 would assume that there is a way to say when you close that contract, please keep the basic data 52 00:03:14,382 --> 00:03:20,502 about me in your register because I might come back and or say please remove everything you 53 00:03:20,502 --> 00:03:24,732 know, because obviously, you know, there is data that they don't need because it might change and 54 00:03:24,732 --> 00:03:30,942 stuff. But say, Hey, my name, my birth date, you know, everybody has that doesn't I don't feel 55 00:03:32,292 --> 00:03:36,762 that there's a problem that every company in Switzerland knows that I'm 34 years old. It's 56 00:03:36,762 --> 00:03:44,382 okay. And I think there we always we often hide behind the legal stuff where we say, yeah, but 57 00:03:44,382 --> 00:03:51,402 it's a big legal problem. And often if you speak with a good lawyer, you know, they will tell you, 58 00:03:51,402 --> 00:03:56,331 Oh, it's not so complicated after all. You just have to be clear in the contract. 59 00:03:56,184 --> 00:03:59,304 Guy: Yeah. We just have to ask them. Get their consent. 60 00:03:59,481 --> 00:03:59,721 Daniele: Yeah. 61 00:04:00,084 --> 00:04:03,714 Guy: But. But then that. That that takes effort as well. Because then you need a mechanism to 62 00:04:03,714 --> 00:04:08,124 manage that consent and to hold the information, even if they're not a customer. So maybe it's 63 00:04:08,124 --> 00:04:12,144 the more difficult path, but it's. It's better for the customer. Right? It makes it easier. 64 00:04:13,041 --> 00:04:19,371 Daniele: yeah, definitely. And that's where small businesses have a, have a big, big chance. 65 00:04:19,371 --> 00:04:25,311 I think today you know of often service design is practiced by the big companies but it's hard 66 00:04:25,311 --> 00:04:31,281 for them because if you want to do that at scale, you know it's super hard. But when you are, you 67 00:04:31,281 --> 00:04:39,145 know, a cafe or boulangerie a bakery, you know, and, and you're you're just one or two, you know, 68 00:04:39,775 --> 00:04:46,405 if you do some exercises, you know, to improve your memory, you don't even have to write 69 00:04:46,405 --> 00:04:52,885 anything and have legal problems of storage. You know, you just remember that this is Guy and Guy 70 00:04:52,885 --> 00:04:54,445 loves his croissant, 71 00:04:54,238 --> 00:04:54,688 Guy: Right. 72 00:04:54,655 --> 00:04:59,755 Daniele: you know, and it's okay. You know, And as you are a small company, you can do that 73 00:04:59,755 --> 00:05:05,545 easily in your mind, which there is no legal framework for what you can store in your minds, 74 00:05:05,725 --> 00:05:08,815 you know, And so you have an unfair advantage here. 75 00:05:09,527 --> 00:05:09,857 Guy: Yeah 76 00:05:09,527 --> 00:05:16,648 Guy: , reminds me actually, of I have a local coffee shop, and they came in several years ago, 77 00:05:16,648 --> 00:05:20,458 and I thought, okay, I like my coffee. I come from, from Melbourne, which is the coffee 78 00:05:20,458 --> 00:05:26,968 capital of Australia. And I moved to Denmark to a town called Vejle. And the coffee culture is 79 00:05:26,968 --> 00:05:31,978 not quite the same as it is in Melbourne. So I'm looking for good coffee. This guy just opened up. 80 00:05:32,428 --> 00:05:36,604 So I visited his store and and got a coffee. It was a good coffee so I thought, alright, I'll 81 00:05:36,604 --> 00:05:40,726 come back here. And the next time I came back here he said hello. He didn't know my name at 82 00:05:40,726 --> 00:05:46,726 that point but said, Oh you want a tall cafe latte, right. You want a big cafe latte and yeah. 83 00:05:46,996 --> 00:05:52,828 Okay, thanks. So already I'm saying okay, this guy knows what he's talking about and we 84 00:05:52,828 --> 00:05:57,926 established this relationship. He got to know me by name and it was just a really pleasant 85 00:05:57,926 --> 00:06:03,116 experience every time I went in there. So it was very easy for me to return. Right. I didn't even 86 00:06:03,116 --> 00:06:08,579 like other coffee shops started opening up and I was like, I don't even feel I need to try that 87 00:06:08,579 --> 00:06:13,779 because I have what I want here, right? There's no friction coming back here. And, you know, 88 00:06:13,799 --> 00:06:19,889 brand loyalty. I mean, it only goes so far, right? So if there's as much friction to remain 89 00:06:19,889 --> 00:06:25,960 a customer as there is to churn to a competitor, then You already have the customer make it easy 90 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,980 for them to stay. If you make it hard for them to stay or harder than it is for them to go 91 00:06:29,980 --> 00:06:34,508 somewhere else, they'll go somewhere else. I guess there's look, there's lots of research or 92 00:06:34,508 --> 00:06:38,648 lots of people trying to understand how do I make my customers more loyal. And this is 93 00:06:38,648 --> 00:06:42,428 probably one of the easiest ways, right? Is you just make it easy for them to return. 94 00:06:42,871 --> 00:06:49,321 Daniele: Yeah. And I'm just return you know it can be the return of having a relationship a 95 00:06:49,321 --> 00:06:54,481 coffee is a good example. You know, it's something that starts ends every day, you know. 96 00:06:55,051 --> 00:07:01,111 But also there are relationships where you are with a company with a subscription, and then you 97 00:07:01,111 --> 00:07:06,901 end it because maybe you don't need it anymore for that time, but you still might like it. And 98 00:07:06,901 --> 00:07:11,551 you say, Hey, I don't use it anymore now, but I know maybe in a year I'm going to use it again. 99 00:07:12,001 --> 00:07:17,461 And so I think there it there are these two moments which are little endings. You know, 100 00:07:17,461 --> 00:07:22,591 there are the big endings and there are the small endings. Small endings happen lots, you 101 00:07:22,591 --> 00:07:29,521 know. And if we can go become better at those small endings and understanding that, oh, even 102 00:07:29,521 --> 00:07:34,561 if it ended now and we will restart tomorrow, maybe I can remember something of this 103 00:07:34,561 --> 00:07:40,861 interaction to give it back to like later look like the coffee guy that you know. So yeah you 104 00:07:40,861 --> 00:07:47,371 took a I grant the it. Oh that's, oh that's really cool. Obviously you need to train your 105 00:07:47,371 --> 00:07:52,651 memory, you need to do a bit of work. And here again, small businesses. Oh my God they have 106 00:07:52,651 --> 00:07:53,851 this unfair advantage 107 00:07:54,548 --> 00:08:00,466 Guy: for sure. I mean, you mentioned subscriptions and the video streaming services. 108 00:08:00,466 --> 00:08:05,776 There's so many of them. So now people are starting to cancel, like when their favorite 109 00:08:05,776 --> 00:08:10,156 show ends, they'll cancel and they'll go to another service. They won't have five services 110 00:08:10,156 --> 00:08:14,266 running at once because that's really expensive. So they'll pick and choose and it will be 111 00:08:14,266 --> 00:08:20,056 seasonal. Right. When when my show ends after ten episodes or 20 episodes, I'll cancel. I'll 112 00:08:20,056 --> 00:08:24,886 go to another service and watch another show. But then next year, whe the new season is on, I 113 00:08:24,886 --> 00:08:29,326 want to come back. And if I'm coming back and you've already got my favorites, they're on my 114 00:08:29,326 --> 00:08:32,666 preferences and all of that sort of thing, that makes it really easy. 115 00:08:32,927 --> 00:08:37,607 Daniele: I'm one of the guys doing that with Disney. So sometimes I just just because, you 116 00:08:37,607 --> 00:08:43,937 know, the Star Wars series are very good, but I do not need all the rest. And so basically I'm 117 00:08:43,937 --> 00:08:48,797 taking again, the subscription. And what's lovely to me is that when I take it again, 118 00:08:49,517 --> 00:08:54,857 basically I have all the things already saved and it knows that the last time it came, I came 119 00:08:54,857 --> 00:09:00,107 for this series. So it shows me is it this one that you want to look because we know you're 120 00:09:00,107 --> 00:09:02,447 back, which is super cool. 121 00:09:02,754 --> 00:09:08,304 Guy: Fantastic. Great conversation. Thanks very much,Daniele , again. And we'll see you on 122 00:09:08,634 --> 00:09:09,534 principle number four. 123 00:09:09,654 --> 00:09:10,674 Daniele: Thanks so much. Right.