1 00:00:00,409 --> 00:00:03,409 Guy: Ten. Explain why this error just happened. 2 00:00:05,879 --> 00:00:09,989 Welcome to Service Design principles. I'm Guy Martin, joined by the author of the Service 3 00:00:09,989 --> 00:00:14,579 Design Principles series of Books founder of the Swiss Innovation Academy and Service design 4 00:00:14,579 --> 00:00:17,369 Practitioner, The Enlightened Daniele Catalanotto 5 00:00:17,899 --> 00:00:23,779 Daniele: Enlightened. I'm already excited to hear all the other ones that you will find with 6 00:00:23,779 --> 00:00:26,139 E! Thanks so much for inviting me, Guy. 7 00:00:27,060 --> 00:00:32,670 Guy: Yeah, no problem. Thank you for being here. Now you're here because you wrote a book called 8 00:00:32,670 --> 00:00:38,100 Service Design Principles one to 100. And this podcast is going through those principles one at 9 00:00:38,100 --> 00:00:43,650 a time, one every episode. So today it's principle number ten. Explain why this error 10 00:00:43,650 --> 00:00:45,870 just happened. Now, why is that important Daniele? 11 00:00:46,939 --> 00:00:52,251 Daniele: So there is always a story. So let me let me start with the story. I take the train a 12 00:00:52,251 --> 00:00:58,671 lot and for a long time when trains in Switzerland where were late, basically what they 13 00:00:58,671 --> 00:01:06,399 were saying was, we're going to arrive 3 minutes late in Lausanne. Sorry about the delay, period. 14 00:01:07,099 --> 00:01:12,999 And basically what would happen is that you would say, oh, I kind of hate the train company. 15 00:01:13,389 --> 00:01:19,509 You know, they're late again, You know, even if in Switzerland, obviously Switzerland being 16 00:01:19,509 --> 00:01:26,829 Switzerland, we love time. Most of the time it's it's it's well on time. But when it happens, you 17 00:01:26,829 --> 00:01:32,469 know you you would blame the company. And a few years ago they started something new which is 18 00:01:32,469 --> 00:01:42,219 quite interesting. They started to say, we're arriving. We have 3 minutes late because there 19 00:01:42,219 --> 00:01:45,729 was a person next to the rails 20 00:01:47,030 --> 00:01:47,540 Guy: Okay. 21 00:01:47,649 --> 00:01:53,147 Daniele: and so we had to stop. Sorry for the inconvenience. And then you're like, Oh, I'm 22 00:01:53,147 --> 00:02:00,347 happy that they kind of took that 3 minutes to not kill the guy. And I'm angry against that guy 23 00:02:00,347 --> 00:02:08,657 who was stupid to go on the rails, you know? And so it's kind of shifting my emotion not to you 24 00:02:08,717 --> 00:02:15,347 are the company you should have known better to. Oh, as a company, I understood that you did the 25 00:02:15,347 --> 00:02:20,537 the best thing you could do and the best thing you could do at that moment was to be late. And 26 00:02:20,717 --> 00:02:29,567 I respect that, even if it sucks. But even if it sucks, it's not. You are stupid. You didn't 27 00:02:29,567 --> 00:02:30,437 manage that well. 28 00:02:31,168 --> 00:02:36,628 Guy: I think it's also, like, for me at least, I like to know why things are happening. 29 00:02:36,892 --> 00:02:37,152 Daniele: Yeah. 30 00:02:37,448 --> 00:02:42,938 Guy: So, okay, we're going to be 5 minutes late because of a signal error or because there was a 31 00:02:42,988 --> 00:02:50,278 late train from another direction or, in airline flights. This happens a lot. I remember sitting 32 00:02:50,698 --> 00:02:58,588 on a tarmac in Frankfurt and we were sitting in the plane for, I don't know, 40 minutes or 33 00:02:58,588 --> 00:03:03,238 something. And this is out on the apron. This is nowhere near a SkyBridge or anything. We'd been 34 00:03:03,238 --> 00:03:07,408 bussed out there and they said, we're still waiting for crew from another flight. The 35 00:03:07,408 --> 00:03:12,238 flight's late. And we have a minimum requirement that we need before we can, start up the engine 36 00:03:12,238 --> 00:03:18,118 sort of thing, before we can take off. I don't know the exact regulation, but understanding 37 00:03:18,118 --> 00:03:22,528 that, okay, the other plane's late, it's going to take time for them to deliver that crew 38 00:03:22,528 --> 00:03:27,388 across. And they actually said as soon as they arrive here, there'll be a bus waiting for them 39 00:03:27,388 --> 00:03:34,258 to bring them to this plane. So they're saying, okay, there is a delay. It's terrible. It's very 40 00:03:34,258 --> 00:03:39,658 late. Here's the reason why. So now suddenly it's like, okay, there is an explanation. It's 41 00:03:39,658 --> 00:03:45,298 not just incompetence, And they've got a mitigation to it. as soon as they arrive, 42 00:03:45,448 --> 00:03:50,248 they're going to make every effort to get that crew across so that we can we can take off and 43 00:03:50,248 --> 00:03:56,922 we can go. So, just knowing that little bit extra made me dislike them a little bit less on 44 00:03:56,922 --> 00:04:02,322 this particular occasion. So overall, their score might still be low, but maybe not as low 45 00:04:02,322 --> 00:04:03,042 as they could be. 46 00:04:03,199 --> 00:04:07,679 Daniele: yeah. And maybe, you know, you just also learn something, you know, as. As you know, 47 00:04:07,679 --> 00:04:13,079 you are someone who loves to learn. As we we heard in our one of our episodes about flowers, 48 00:04:14,609 --> 00:04:19,559 you know, it's an opportunity to learn that. Oh, okay. There are regulations about the number of 49 00:04:19,559 --> 00:04:26,989 staff that needs to be to be here and. Okay, the low is the low. And, uh, I can blame the low. At 50 00:04:26,999 --> 00:04:28,529 least I've learned something. 51 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:33,261 Guy: Now, I'm interested in the aviation industry in general, because I like I like 52 00:04:33,261 --> 00:04:37,851 problem solving and doing root cause analysis and learning from mistakes. And the aviation 53 00:04:37,851 --> 00:04:41,481 industry, I think, does it the best out of almost any industry. They learn from their 54 00:04:41,481 --> 00:04:46,745 mistakes very well. So I wanted to understand a bit more about, okay, well, how does it work 55 00:04:46,745 --> 00:04:50,966 with this plane on the tarmac? Because, when the crew comes, there's there's a whole lot of 56 00:04:50,966 --> 00:04:55,235 variables that happen here. And this is Frankfurt Airport, one of the busiest in Europe. 57 00:04:55,718 --> 00:05:01,836 And I found out they have this slot allocated to them to be able to take off. So they have to 58 00:05:01,836 --> 00:05:07,748 apply for a slot to say, okay, we would like to take off and we will be ready to pushback to 59 00:05:07,758 --> 00:05:14,091 leave our parking area and start to head towards the runway at X time. Right. 3:10 or something. 60 00:05:14,631 --> 00:05:20,243 And then they have this window of time that they have to be rolling on the tarmac to meet that 61 00:05:20,243 --> 00:05:25,051 slot. And if they're not rolling, then they lose that slot and it may get given to another plane 62 00:05:25,051 --> 00:05:30,568 because they're too busy. So they can't just afford to wait for 2 hours and hold this window 63 00:05:30,568 --> 00:05:36,173 open. So, again, that's another reason that, okay, even when the crew comes, they get 64 00:05:36,173 --> 00:05:40,193 delivered to the plane. There still might be another delay because they missed their slot, 65 00:05:40,313 --> 00:05:44,513 they missed their window. And that was really interesting to me to find that out. And I 66 00:05:44,513 --> 00:05:49,353 started, trying to understand, okay, well, how do airport operations work? And, so it was this 67 00:05:49,353 --> 00:05:53,823 frustrating thing. But now I've got time. I've got an Internet connection, so I can look up at 68 00:05:53,823 --> 00:05:58,893 some of this stuff and understand more. So it actually turned into a positive experience for 69 00:05:58,893 --> 00:06:04,050 me. So while yes, I was a bit late, I'm going to be a bit late home. It was a learning 70 00:06:04,050 --> 00:06:08,172 opportunity that I could take advantage of as well. So, trying to find that silver lining 71 00:06:08,172 --> 00:06:08,712 maybe there. 72 00:06:08,911 --> 00:06:15,791 Daniele: Yeah. I love it. But I think that's just a perfectly good example where for one 73 00:06:15,791 --> 00:06:21,191 group of people, you know, basically a message like that, which is explain why this error just 74 00:06:21,191 --> 00:06:27,641 happened. Uh, serves three different people. You know, the people who don't give a fuck, who 75 00:06:27,641 --> 00:06:32,381 basically say, Tell me there is an error. I put my headphones back. It's okay. I would have to 76 00:06:32,381 --> 00:06:36,821 wait. I don't need to understand why they get the information. The people who want to 77 00:06:36,821 --> 00:06:42,551 understand why they get the information and the people who want to get the information and are 78 00:06:42,551 --> 00:06:49,541 curious. Well, then go on Google and say, Why? Why is this happening in that way? You know, and 79 00:06:49,691 --> 00:06:54,051 they will learn something. it's a pretty powerful message because it serves very 80 00:06:54,051 --> 00:06:59,901 different audiences well, We're not speaking about the why. We'll just serve the ones who 81 00:06:59,901 --> 00:07:01,221 just are not interested. 82 00:07:00,898 --> 00:07:01,208 Guy: Mm. 83 00:07:01,516 --> 00:07:07,126 Daniele: it reminds me also not just about the errors but also about, you know, often in train 84 00:07:07,126 --> 00:07:12,946 companies or stuff, we say we speak about the errors. We don't speak about the little 85 00:07:12,946 --> 00:07:13,606 victories. 86 00:07:13,590 --> 00:07:14,000 Guy: Yeah. 87 00:07:14,296 --> 00:07:18,886 Daniele: And this is something that I've noticed that more and more companies do is, for example, 88 00:07:19,696 --> 00:07:27,436 companies say, we are leaving on time. You know, and this message, you know, this is powerful, 89 00:07:27,436 --> 00:07:33,226 you know, because in a day, you know how much people have heard this is not working. Please 90 00:07:33,226 --> 00:07:39,286 take elevator B, this is not working. Please do that. We have delay, blah, blah, blah. But how 91 00:07:39,286 --> 00:07:43,516 many times could we just say everything is fine? Life is beautiful. 92 00:07:43,963 --> 00:07:44,263 Guy: Yeah. 93 00:07:44,776 --> 00:07:50,056 Daniele: Yeah. And and and this is for me, it's a it's been hearing our conversation on that. 94 00:07:50,056 --> 00:07:55,456 It's like we're trying to shift the blame. You know, that's a bit of what we're trying to do 95 00:07:55,456 --> 00:08:02,746 with this. But sometimes we could just also just expose the the goodness of all what's what's 96 00:08:02,746 --> 00:08:03,526 being done right. 97 00:08:03,764 --> 00:08:06,974 Guy: Yeah. It's own our mistakes, but also own our successes. 98 00:08:07,346 --> 00:08:07,706 Daniele: Yeah 99 00:08:07,346 --> 00:08:11,996 Daniele: . And as cultures, I don't know if if it's like that in your country, but in 100 00:08:11,996 --> 00:08:17,786 Switzerland, you know, we own our mistakes and never speak about what we do. Right. Because 101 00:08:17,786 --> 00:08:27,686 it's a culture of of no ego. We speak about, you know, problems are personal and victories. They 102 00:08:27,686 --> 00:08:33,296 are they are to everyone, you know, everybody did it together. And but at the same time, I 103 00:08:33,296 --> 00:08:38,216 think it's important in such cultures, especially to be able to reveal that what's 104 00:08:38,216 --> 00:08:39,176 happening well. 105 00:08:39,527 --> 00:08:44,457 Guy: Yeah. in Australia, we have this thing called the tall poppy syndrome, where, you know, 106 00:08:44,667 --> 00:08:49,767 someone raises a little bit above where they should be and they, they a bit too proud. Then 107 00:08:49,767 --> 00:08:55,207 they get cut down very quickly. So culturally, it doesn't often happen that people will say 108 00:08:55,207 --> 00:09:00,007 that they're fantastic and they're great. But there's a difference there because you can still 109 00:09:00,007 --> 00:09:06,427 be proud of an achievement without being, egotistical or about being over proud or, going 110 00:09:06,427 --> 00:09:11,347 over the top. So. So simply saying, okay, and we're leaving on time today. It's great to have 111 00:09:11,347 --> 00:09:16,247 you on board or something like this. It's just that subtle message. But as you say, it's so 112 00:09:16,267 --> 00:09:22,747 it's so powerful. It's to say, okay, whatever else is going wrong today, this little thing is 113 00:09:22,747 --> 00:09:26,017 gone. Right. So let's be grateful for that. At least. 114 00:09:26,586 --> 00:09:32,016 Daniele: indeed. And and so we can expand a bit this principle by saying whenever you share an 115 00:09:32,016 --> 00:09:37,296 information, I think is there an additional thing that we could add, You know for example is 116 00:09:37,296 --> 00:09:42,306 it "why" or for example it's we arriving in Lausanne which is a information that you will 117 00:09:42,306 --> 00:09:48,666 already give, but could we add something to it which would create something new, which is like, 118 00:09:48,666 --> 00:09:55,176 oh, we are arriving on time in Lausanne. Oh, okay. Or we are late because of this and 119 00:09:55,176 --> 00:09:59,946 thinking about, okay, we're giving a lot of informations. Is there a little nugget of, of 120 00:09:59,946 --> 00:10:05,076 supplements, information that we can share that will change the relationship that people have 121 00:10:05,076 --> 00:10:05,916 with that information? 122 00:10:06,424 --> 00:10:12,524 Guy: Thank you very much. I think that that's a good wrap up to this episode. Well, I'll see you 123 00:10:12,524 --> 00:10:13,664 next on the next episode, 124 00:10:15,126 --> 00:10:16,656 Daniele: Such a pleasure See you. Bye bye.