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Guy: Welcome to Service Design Principles. I'm
Guy Martin, joined by the author of the Service

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Design Principles series of Books, founder of
the Swiss Innovation Academy and Service Design

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Maestro the elegant Daniele Catalanotto. Hi,
Daniele!

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Daniele: Thanks, Guy. Such a pleasure to be with
you today.

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Guy: Same here. So each episode we look at some
of the principles from your book Service Design

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principles 1 to 100. And today we're talking
about impersonal services. So in service design,

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we often try and remember that the relationships
that we have between humans and other humans,

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although the reality is that it's often between
humans and organizations, and that's where there

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can be a big opportunity to make a small change
to a service to make it less impersonal. So

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where could we start, Daniele? .

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Daniele: Thanks so much for the question. I
think it's a very important question because

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there is this this bug, you know, that we have
in our minds, which is we are an organization.

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My friend who was a storyteller, he often when
when he explained storytelling to organizations,

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he often one of the things he says is you might
think because you are in an organization, you

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have to be serious because you are an
organization. You can't tell stories just to

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remember you, to remind to you. You are human
listening, so to speak, lik humans, you know,

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and and is doing that very well. And that's kind
of the reminder that that you brought in and

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that I think we we need as maybe the first
element is there's this mindset shift that even

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if we are an organization it's a it's a bunch of
humans that are in it. But to get very practical,

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you know, that's always what I love with these
tiny principles is that it's stuff that you can

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apply right away.

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Daniele: And it's one principle is the one which
is called ask unnecessary emotional information

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and this is basically something that happened to,
I think, not something that happened to my wife

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when she was, you know, buying her dress for our
wedding. That's something very emotional,

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obviously. And and the guy who sold it to her
did something very smart. So she she picked the

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dress. She was very happy, you know, And you
know, how how how people get into a situation

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taking a lot of pictures. It's it's a very
emotional and stuff. And so it's already a very

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emotional moment. But the guy doing the the sale
at the end said one thing that changed

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everything for her. He said, what's the future
name you'll use after your wedding? And then she

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said, Oh, it's going to be Joelle Catalanotto.
Okay. So that's what I'm going to write on the

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receipt. And so he acknowledged that there was
something, you know, that was very personal,

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that was not necessary, you know, for his he ran
it. The Syrian doesn't care if it's the the the

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the maiden name or the delay, the name that
comes after, you know, the systems don't care

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about that stuff. But by asking that little
unnecessary question, he showed oh, I'm I'm here

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I'm a human and I'm interested that a tiny bit
in your life. And this changed completely for

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her the relationship. So when she came back, she
didn't tell me about the dress, which is

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interesting. She told me, Did you know what he
asked? And then she she explained a lot about

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that. And so that's very interesting to me.

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Guy: Yeah, he was probably the first to use that
name with her as well. Right?

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Daniele: Exactly. So imagine how emotional that
is. You

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Guy: Yeah.

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Daniele: know, especially obviously, this is a
very Swiss thing. I always have to say that

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because, you know, in Switzerland, there is kind
of this culture of taking the name of more of

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one on another can be in both ways, obviously.
But it's something that is quite usual and quite

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common and that people kind of like the name of
the change of name is something that is kind of

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a ritual that is that is that is quite emotional
for people and therefore for him doing that, he

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was the first one to say, I recognize this
ritual and we in it together

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Guy: Yep.

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Daniele: and I'm giving you hints of what will
happen, which is very lovely

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Guy: right? No, that's smart. I mean, maybe it's
easy, though, when it's a wedding dress, right?

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Because there's already emotion at stake. So is
there a way that we can ask him unnecessarily

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emotional information when you're a different
type of business?

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Daniele: yeah, I think many businesses do that
well. So if it's more you know, salespeople do

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that very well, they ask about your kids. You
know, it's a very simple thing. It's not

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necessary at that moment. But but it gives you
it's it gives you a bit of a of a context of the

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life of the of the person, you know. So, for
example, when you ask about the kid and it's a

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two year old that's usually three year old, you
know, it gives you a lot of information about

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what the person is going through in her life.
You know, and it also helps kind of to to then

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empathize back and say, oh, okay, So you are you
have the tough nights. I see. Yeah. Okay. Well,

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you manage such quite well. You know, and and
that's kind of like that's one it's totally

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necessary in a way, you know, because

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people don't need to know that. But even if it's
emotional, you know, it, it can also give a bit

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of a of a business value because you then
understand better what the person is going

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through. And therefore, you know that, you know,
emotionally, you know, they are maybe less awake

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than the usual guy would be. And that's kind of
an information that's that obviously you can ask,

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obviously being smart about it. You know, it's a
the usual stuff is looking at at wedding rings

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and this kind

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Guy: Mm

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Daniele: of stuff like yeah seeing that on the
laptop there is a kid and say oh a kid photo

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they go how many do you have or what's their age?
You know, and this kind of stuff. It's

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definitely not necessary, but it's a small stuff
that you can do. And I've seen that done by

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sales guys and it's it changes the

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Daniele: conversation

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Guy: Yeah. I was going to say, I think
salespeople know this intuitively, right? I mean,

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even though I know it's kind of like a tactic or
it's a it's a sales method to, to, you know,

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make it personal. I still fall for it. I
remember buying our car and my daughter was

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quite a lot younger than she is now. And the
salesperson, you know, Yeah, I saw, you know, do

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you have a family and, you know, all these
questions. But then he started to tailor the

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style of the car to the needs that he could
perceive. So it's like, oh, you know, we're

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talking about a sunroof like a moonroof. And in
a way, it's like, okay, that's a bit of a luxury.

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It's like, well, have you ever been carsick in
the car? Because sometimes looking up through

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the moonroof can make you less carsick. And kids
often get carsick sometimes, especially when

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they're in the back. So I kind of knew it was
like, okay, you're leading me down this path

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here, but I'm on board, right? I'm with you on
this journey because I feel it. You know, you've

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made it slightly emotional. I'm aware of it,
which is like, you know, placebos still work,

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even though, you know, it's a placebo in some
cases. So I was aware, but I still sort of fell

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for it. Got Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, this is
probably the right car for me. I probably should

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invest a little bit more in that in that
moonroof.

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Daniele: yeah And, and it's not because we know
that it's a tactic that we don't see the value

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in it. You know,

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Guy: No.

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Daniele: when you say hello, how are you, We all
know this is just being polite, you know, but we

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still answer the question and say today I'm good.
In fact, at the moment I'm not so good. You know,

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it's it's it's rituals, you know, and
recognizing that sometimes these tactics are

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also a bit rituals and that they have to their
value also to make it more personal. you know,

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when I'm thinking about personal services, I
always have in mind my my very good friends. And

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so I only say the names of people who are doing
very good stuff or or name of brands that are

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doing exceptional stuff. So I will say a name,
uh, which is my very good friend Patrizia. She

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will recognize herself when she is working at
IKEA in Japan at the moment. And the and she, I

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worked back in, back in the days and her with
her in a consultancy and

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Guy: Okay.

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Daniele: she was the project manager, you know,
who was able to transform projects into

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relationships. And one of the things that she
did and which I love to observe is her PS in her

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work emails. Her PS was always something about
the day, something personal, you know, where so

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but she said, you know, Oh, PS, just came back
from holidays, super excited to get started

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again, you know. But but then she was specific,
you know, she said, oh, just back from Bali, so

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happy. And then what would happen is that she
would have PS conversations. So there was always

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kind of like the business conversation and the

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Guy: Yep.

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Daniele: PS conversation happening.

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Guy: Interesting

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Daniele: And so she got really deep into into
relationships with with the people she she

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worked with so that, you know, when she left,
you know, people were like very sad that she was

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the person leaving because they said, no, no, no,
We we are not here because of the consultancy.

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You know, we didn't stay because of the
consultancy. We stayed because of her.

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Guy: Right?

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Daniele: And that's that's kind of magic, you
know. And so this is another example of how this

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unnecessary personal information, sometimes it's
asking one, but sometimes it's it's better also

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to just give one, you know, giving one as we are
people of reciprocity. You know, you I'm giving

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you a personal information. What will happen is
you will give me you will give me one back, and

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then suddenly we are in a level which is not
anymore. Guy is speaking to Daniele, Guy from

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Neolux, Daniele from Swiss Innovation Academy.
It's very serious and stuff,

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Guy: Mm hmm.

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Daniele: but now it's we're talking about our
kids, you know, and

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Guy: Yeah.

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Daniele: our little struggles and it's very
different.

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Guy: No, that's really interesting. I mean, it's.
It's good advice for personal relationship

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management as well, or building personal
relationships, because, you know, I mentioned at

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the start it humans are dealing with other
humans.But  at work sometimes we see the roles

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and we say even like, like our boss or people in
other departments are that's the, the, the

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developers and it's quite impersonal, as you say.
But when you start to make those connections,

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then it can be just as easy, like a piece. Then
it starts to break down those those professional

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organizational walls and you get real
relationships out of it. And that actually

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benefits your professional life as well. Right.

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Daniele: absolutely

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Daniele:  And, and it's it's a very good
reminder that you're giving us here, whi is that,

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you know, there are kind of these different
levels of services. And so now we would we being

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a bit more meta but I think it's it's a very
good reminder. So there is this very simple

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practical level, you know, that are these
services and principles stuff that you can do to

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help customers, you know, feel better and feel
more respected. And then there is kind of like

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the other side, which is, Oh, but now I can use
that at work to, you know, to smooth into

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relationships at work. And then there is the
last level, which is that if it works for work

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and making customers happy, why not use it in
family life, parties and stuff, you know? And so

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there are kind of these levels and and I think
it's a very good reminder here to say once

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you've experimented with this kind of stuff, you
know, let it flow to the other parts of your

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life because that's when you will get the most
value of it. And it's true for services and it's

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true for many practices. You know, doing
mindfulness when you do it just 5 minutes a day

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and then suddenly you start to be mindful doing
your work, then you start to be mindful doing

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your parenting stuff, you know, and then
suddenly it gets it gets a bit further. But

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that's that's definitely a thing to see that it
can spread out. But

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Guy: Mm hmm. Everything's interconnected.

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Daniele: yeah, indeed, indeed.

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Guy: Yeah. Although I think if I presented my
wife with a service blueprint on how to make a

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nice evening at home or something that might not
go down so well, bu for some people, it might.

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Daniele: yeah, indeed. And maybe the service
blueprint is not the best idea. Definitely. But

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you know, maybe doing a5y with your wife on the,
on a parenting issue that you're both faced with,

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you know is a good exercise. You know,

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Guy: know,

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Daniele: I always

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Daniele: tell this story to to to the design
studies I have is when I teach them how to do

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workshops and and affinity mapping. So and this
kind of stuff, I always take them, tell them,

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you know, the day my wife announced that we're
going to have a kid, obviously there was the

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emotional moment and then there was the oh shit
moment is we going to have a kids, is going to

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be serious and we're not prepared at all. And
and I tell them, Do you know what I did? I took

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out Miro, which is one of these whiteboard apps,
a we just packed all the sticky notes of all

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what was carrying in our heads, you know, and
just put it there and then started to map it

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into, okay, this is stuff that we it's not our
responsibility. Oh, these are more principles

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that we want to teach.

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Guy: want.

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Daniele: These are very administrative tasks
that we need to do next week and next month,

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etc.. And then suddenly we were like, okay, now
we can be happy again about having a kids.And

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and it shows that, you know, these methods
obviously not all, but they can spread out in,

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in the different parts of your life.

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Guy: Yeah. I've heard stories of people where
they have with. They've got young children,

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they've got toddlers, and suddenly they're able
to much better communicate with the executive

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teams. I don't know if there's any relationship
or correlation there, but I've heard these

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stories, you know,

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Daniele: I've heard them do it

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but if we'd came back to to the more daily stuff
because the podcast is called Service Design

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Principles so I'm going to go back to to Earth
level and, and maybe mentioned one one last of

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these principles in this impersonal topic, one
which is very dear to me, which is this idea of

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Daniele: making it personal is different for
every culture. And, you know, in in Switzerland

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we have kind of a fascination sometimes for for
the states because obviously, you know, the

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states have such a big, impressive culture that
sometimes we steal stuff from them, but

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sometimes also

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stuff gets brought into our culture. And an
example is how some said some cafes that come

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from from the states in Switzerland ask you a
question that is very weird for us Swiss. It's

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you know, they they ask you what's your name,
what's your first name? And then they want to

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put it on the coffee and the first time I had
this interaction and it was a time where, you

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know, we didn't have all the movies about the
states as as open

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Guy: Mm hmm.

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Daniele: as today. It feels very weird to me
because I was like, Who are you? Why do you want

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to need what? Why do you need my first name?

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Guy: Mm hmm.

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Daniele: What's happening here?

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Guy: That's

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Daniele: You know?

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Guy: very personal.

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Daniele: Yeah. And, and you know, this is a
chain and you're talking to me in so in, in

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French, we have two levels. You know, we have
"tu", which is you, but we know each other, and

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we have "vous", which is you, but it's very
polite and, and we don't know each other. And so

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she's speaking more to me in two, which means

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Guy: Mm

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Daniele: we we are besties already, you know,
like,hey ,

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Guy: hmm.

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Daniele: we're not besties here.

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Guy: Yeah. Slow down a bit.

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Daniele: Slow down a bit. And then I realized,
oh, know, this is just a cultural element that

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comes from

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Guy: Mm

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Daniele: states.

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Guy: hmm.

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Daniele: And that at that time didn't make any
sense in Switzerland. And because people are

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just like, Oh, but we don't have the cultural
reference for that. And it felt very weird. So I

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think it brings us back that sometimes being
personal in one country will look very

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impersonal in another country, and that's okay.
And so we can we have to be mindful of these

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cultural elements that have what's personal in
Japan is not the same thing that and what's

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personal in Switzerland than what's personal.
And to states. And obviously then you can go

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even regional. You know, what's personal in
Texas is not the same then what's personal in

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the region of view in Switzerland and

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Guy: Run.

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Daniele: and being mindful of that takes a bit
of energy. But I think if you can be personal in

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the regional cultures specific way, then you're
very strong

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Guy: And I mean, you're talking about culture as,
like, national culture or regional culture. But

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there are other types of cultures as well to be
aware of, too. You know,

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Daniele: you.

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Guy: the way people are brought up with their
religious upbringing or, you know, just, just,

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you know, their education. So people will have a
different culture if they've gone through

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business school compared to if they've gone
through trade school. You know, it's, uh. So

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being aware of those those different cultures as
well, I think is super important. And I can talk

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about culture for a long time, but I'll try and
restrain myself here. But one more thing on that,

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though, was you mentioned before about the
ritual of Hi, how are you? And that's that's

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been something that that my wife, who is born in
Denmark, she doesn't understand or she finds

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irritating, is like, Hi, how are you? It's like
you don't really know one another, know how? How

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am I? You know, would you be happy if I came
round and said, Well, act I've got a you know,

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I'm sore in my legs and I've got this rash and,
you know, you really don't want to know that, so

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don't ask. So it's though those that awareness
is really interesting, even on something as

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simple as Hi, how are you? As like, okay. Well,
it doesn't mean the same for everybody. Not

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everyone has that has that ritual.

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Daniele: absolutely. B we come to a close, uh, I
know that you are very aware of the culture

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differences you've trained into these aspects,
especially in cultural communication. And what's

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one, one kind of nuggets maybe that you have,
you know, that when it comes to making things

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personal, but working in cross cultures, you
know, because it can be very scary, you know,

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Guy: Mm hmm.

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Daniele: I know that, you know, the way we say
hello is very different and very in various

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cultures.

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What's for you? Maybe a tip or something that
you say to avoid that In French we said faux

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Guy: Faux

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Daniele: pas,

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Guy: pas. Mm

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Daniele: you know, A

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Guy: hmm.

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Daniele: Yeah, a mistake,

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Guy: Yep.

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Daniele: you know, is there is are some tips
that you can give to people. So it's, you know,

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oh, you're going to work on a global scale. Just
do these things to make sure that you're the way

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you're going to be personal still is person

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Guy: Sure we could make a whole podcast about
some of this stuff as well. But, I mean, I guess

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at a very basic level is it's okay to research
the cultures that you'll be dealing with. You

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know, if you know that you're going to be
talking like if you're from the US and you're

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going to be dealing with someone from Germany,
it's okay to get hints for dealing with people

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from Germany. A lot of the advice will be
stereotypical, but stereotypes come from

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somewhere. You know that there's a there's an
element of truth, and you'll always have people

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that don't meet the stereotype and that that
sort of deviate from from the expected cultural

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norms of that of that stereotype. But if you
know nothing else about the person except from

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where they're from, you can make some
assumptions and you can sort of step in a

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direction where you go, oh, okay, well, they're
probably going to respond well to this. So if

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we're talking about Germany for example, and
we're talking about formal and informal before

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with with pronouns addressing German people by
their last name can be quite important and a

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sign of respect. When you go into Scandinavia
and Australia and the US, that's not as as

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important. So you, you meet someone for the
first time and you say, Oh, hi Jim, or Hi

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Daniele, but when you deal with someone from
Germany for the first time or and I suppose it's

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the same in Switzerland or in regions of
Switzerland, then Herr Catalanotto would come

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across much better than Daniele. And it's just
that sign of respect. And then if they respond

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and say, Thanks Guy, then maybe that's an
opening to say, okay, maybe we can be on a first

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name basis now. So a bit bit of a long winded
thing, but I mean, do the research and and

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there's plenty of resources out there and most
of them are good. says, just to say, yes, it may

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be stereotypical, but if you have nothing else
to go on, it does come from somewhere. So it's

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not a it will mean that you probably make less
faux pas

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Daniele: yeah. So it's okay to research, learn
to stereotype stereotypes, play a bit with them,

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and at least the worst thing that may happen is
that people say, Oh, I'm not that kind of Swiss

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Guy: That

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Daniele: guy. It's okay.

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Guy: yeah,

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Daniele: And

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Guy: yeah.

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Daniele: but at the same time, I will see that a
guy has been someone who has done his homework

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and he read that people take out their shoes in
Switzerland and

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Guy: Right.

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Daniele: so and they will tell him

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Guy: And

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Daniele: it's

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Guy: I

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Daniele: okay.

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Guy: was kind

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Daniele: Guy

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Guy: of.

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Daniele: Yeah, I don't mean that often.

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Guy: Hmm. Yeah. I mean that it's um, I guess if
again, if we use Germans or Swiss as a

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stereotype, they're seen as very timely. Being
punctual is extremely important, but not to

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everyone. But if you're punctual, that's going
to go down well in any case, right.

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Daniele: And it,

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Guy: So

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Daniele: it, it

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Guy: it's also about adapting your own style to
the people that you're communicating with as

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well. And that's, you know, being willing to do
that.

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Daniele: also, I'm already excited to, to read,
uh, to have some readings for my next travel.

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Guy: One more thing I wanted to talk about,
Daniele, was the principle of "Just Remember Me".

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Can you go a bit more into "Just Remember Me"?

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Daniele: Yeah. You know, there is this great
moment where when when you're new in a city and

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you visit a little sort of one of those little
services, you know, a bakery or a cafe or

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something like that, and you enter the service
and in front of you, there is someone else who

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you see is a regular and you see a kind of very
different interaction happening, which is the

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person to say hello and the person who is doing
the service or the barriers, the baker or I

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00:24:25,341 --> 00:24:30,651
don't know how you call these guys in English,
just giving the person directly what she wants.

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You know, it's like, Oh, as usual, Pam. Because
she remembers the person and she says, and it is

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kind of like and say hello to the kids, you know?
And then you're like, okay, this is a this is a

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cafe I want to stay in. You know, because if I
come often enough, they will remember me, you

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know, And it's a much more different perspective
than if you go to Starbucks and, you know, you

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and they ask you your name, misspell it, and
then call you Danilo and you have to remember

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that, oh, yes, they will never, never get my
Italian name right. That's okay. And next time

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you come, they will misspell it in another
creative way. So it's kind of like a bit of a

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difference there

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Guy: Right. So for these small businesses, that
makes a lot of sense, right? Because you get to

325
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know all of your customers. But for bigger
businesses, how scalable is it to be so personal?

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Daniele: Indeed today, it's not so much of a big
problem anymore. Back in the days when when we

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were and it was a bit more difficult. But today
was, you know, all of the CRMs and the

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automations and all of that stuff, it's it's
pretty easy. It's pretty easy. Obviously, you

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know, it's easier, I think, for small businesses
to do it in a very purposeful way, you know, in

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a way that feels genuine, that feels warm and
welcoming than the the automation that then, you

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know, takes your last name for first name and
then misses everything up. You know, that's

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that's a bit of a danger when you automate the
automated things. But definitely it's possible

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to do, uh, and the one thing to remember is when
you do this kind of automated thing is to, to

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always think, obviously I'm going to do it in
the, uh, I want to remember the person, but I

335
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might not have the data for every person. So how
do I fall back? Uh, or in a way that is, that

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has a bit of grace. So, and a small example is
one from my own newsletter where, uh, when

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I don't have the name of the person, it just
says, Hey, lovely human, you know, which is a

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big difference from, hey, uh, first name tag
missing, which makes

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00:27:03,263 --> 00:27:03,783
Guy: it's

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00:27:03,579 --> 00:27:09,975
Daniele: okay, he doesn't recognize me at all,
you know, And at least if you don't remember the

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00:27:09,975 --> 00:27:16,665
person personally, at least you can remember
something of the humanity, you know? And, like,

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00:27:16,885 --> 00:27:26,805
lovely human is very much different than. Hey,
sir. Hello, Uh, madam. Which might seem very

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Guy: Mm.

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00:27:27,285 --> 00:27:31,785
Daniele: obviously polite, but very boring, you
know? How can you also play with those things

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00:27:32,115 --> 00:27:40,665
when you fail to be personal? Uh, how can you
still do something? It remembers me. Y know, I'm

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00:27:40,665 --> 00:27:47,445
really bad with names, but usually people, at
least they hope, don't notice it so much because

347
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instead of, you know, being like, Hey, Nick,you
just say, Hey, awesome guy. You know, at least

348
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in French, we have this kind of like, tiny
things that you can say, like Big Boss, you know,

349
00:27:59,355 --> 00:28:03,435
and it's kind of a compliment, you know, which
replaces the first name.

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Guy: Right?

351
00:28:04,065 --> 00:28:09,465
Daniele: And at least the person, you know, is
is kind of, oh, yeah, he sees a quality, you

352
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know, and therefore, even then, you know, even
if it's impersonal, you still can, you know,

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greet in a way that is maybe not the first name
because you don't remember it, but you remember

354
00:28:22,695 --> 00:28:24,575
that it's a great musician, you know, And

355
00:28:24,590 --> 00:28:24,830
Guy: You

356
00:28:24,675 --> 00:28:26,385
Daniele: it's like, hey, Guitar Hero.

357
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:26,870
Guy: know, Right.

358
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Daniele: And

359
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Guy: Yeah.

360
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Daniele: then it's like, Oh, the person
recognized me And so I'm curious, you know, in,

361
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in your own experiences because I always tell
you that you are a service design expert as you

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use a lot of, of services, obviously, and in
your own experiences using different services,

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what is something where you feel like, oh, now
I'm recognized as myself, you know, and this

364
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makes me feel seen not just as a, uh, customer
number 2 to 3,

365
00:29:01,758 --> 00:29:02,288
Guy: Mm hmm.

366
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Daniele: but as

367
00:29:03,367 --> 00:29:03,987
Daniele: a guy.

368
00:29:03,738 --> 00:29:10,488
Guy: Mm. I mean, I think it's this kind of links
into some of the other principles that we've

369
00:29:10,488 --> 00:29:15,948
talked about as well, in that if you have the
information about me, like, if you have some

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00:29:15,948 --> 00:29:21,648
information about, like my date of birth, for
example, then it's not difficult to use it. So

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if I'm engaged with a, uh, like a larger
organization, which I know is not going to

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really know me personally, but I know that they
have my some of my personal information, I guess

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I get a bit frustrated when they don't utilize
that, you know, or, or I get surprised when they

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do. So if I get a, you know, we saw it was your
birthday. Happy birthday. Okay, that's that's

375
00:29:44,388 --> 00:29:49,668
great. You've got my date of birth. And so
you've used it in a way that that is it kind of

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personalizes or helps build the relationship.
And then when you have another interaction and

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00:29:56,748 --> 00:30:03,708
maybe you've bought several things of the same
type from this organization before the last

378
00:30:03,708 --> 00:30:08,528
three times. So the fourth time they may say,
you know, did you want to buy this again? Or

379
00:30:08,538 --> 00:30:13,248
here's something else that we we think you might
like, you know, some simple recommendations, but

380
00:30:13,248 --> 00:30:17,958
really, based on the previous interactions I've
had with them, then that's that's a surprising

381
00:30:17,958 --> 00:30:22,908
thing to me. And it should I don't think it
should be surprising in a way, because if you've

382
00:30:22,908 --> 00:30:28,578
got that information, then then, you know,
utilize it. Yeah, and I guess that's why I liked

383
00:30:28,578 --> 00:30:34,518
that that, that, that principle of remember me.
It's not just remember me and my name, but also

384
00:30:34,518 --> 00:30:41,358
remember my preferences. So there is, um,
there's an idea in we're going to talk about

385
00:30:41,358 --> 00:30:49,698
hotels again because we always end up here in
our hotel. There was a technology that that that

386
00:30:49,698 --> 00:30:55,458
was coming out. And I think this is still
probably is where you could control the

387
00:30:55,458 --> 00:31:02,208
temperature of the room through automation so
that you could save money when the room wasn't

388
00:31:02,208 --> 00:31:09,138
occupied and you could provide good comfort when
you knew the room was occupied. Now, if you have

389
00:31:09,138 --> 00:31:13,818
that linked up to the property management system,
so in the reservation system, you know who's

390
00:31:13,818 --> 00:31:19,428
arriving and you know, okay, well, this person
is coming from maybe the Middle East. And we

391
00:31:19,428 --> 00:31:24,468
know that every time they come here, they sit
there. The air conditioner to 19 degrees right.

392
00:31:24,468 --> 00:31:29,628
It's quite cool because they're used to very
strong air conditioning. The next time the

393
00:31:29,628 --> 00:31:35,178
person comes, then we should preset their air
conditioning to 19 degrees because we know this

394
00:31:35,178 --> 00:31:40,218
about them. We've got that information and we're
used to it. So that's that's something about

395
00:31:40,218 --> 00:31:42,918
remembering me and remembering my preferences as
well.

396
00:31:43,063 --> 00:31:43,353
Daniele: Yeah

397
00:31:43,063 --> 00:31:45,913
Daniele: , absolutely. It's crazy. You know, how
much

398
00:31:47,173 --> 00:31:54,643
data or pieces of information we share. You know
that people organizations have about us stored

399
00:31:54,643 --> 00:31:59,203
somewhere, you know, and they never get used in
the right way. You know, it's kind of funny

400
00:31:59,203 --> 00:32:06,793
where when it's like you, you have the the
birthday of the person, but then you ask them to

401
00:32:06,793 --> 00:32:12,343
fill a form and you don't pre fill it with the
information you already have. Obviously, it's a

402
00:32:12,343 --> 00:32:17,533
bit technical. It's it's the work to make it
happen like that, you know but, but this kind of

403
00:32:17,533 --> 00:32:18,793
pre feeling thing

404
00:32:20,503 --> 00:32:25,483
makes a lot of sense, especially when you're a
big organization and that's a that's a very

405
00:32:26,353 --> 00:32:35,083
smart and lovely way to show we've seen you we
remember you We do the work for you you know and

406
00:32:35,083 --> 00:32:38,443
just using the data properly is kind of like a
sign

407
00:32:38,224 --> 00:32:38,524
Guy: hmm.

408
00:32:38,443 --> 00:32:38,713
Daniele: of.

409
00:32:38,524 --> 00:32:39,694
Guy: We respect your time.

410
00:32:39,403 --> 00:32:44,563
Daniele: Exactly. It's a sign of respect, you
know, uh, and especially for big organizations,

411
00:32:44,563 --> 00:32:50,203
I think for, for smaller organizations, we, we
are much, much more forgiving, you know, And we

412
00:32:50,203 --> 00:32:56,233
think, okay, you know, if my bakery doesn't
remember exactly my birthday, it's okay. You

413
00:32:56,233 --> 00:33:00,613
know, they, they, they don't have the the
software tools and the things to do it.

414
00:33:00,973 --> 00:33:07,063
Strangely enough, the bakery remembers your
birthday. Even if they don't have a software

415
00:33:07,363 --> 00:33:08,473
because they have less

416
00:33:08,424 --> 00:33:08,854
Guy: Yeah,

417
00:33:08,473 --> 00:33:08,983
Daniele: people

418
00:33:08,904 --> 00:33:09,054
Guy: they're

419
00:33:09,013 --> 00:33:09,203
Daniele: to

420
00:33:09,054 --> 00:33:09,624
Guy: more likely

421
00:33:09,303 --> 00:33:09,413
Daniele: it.

422
00:33:09,624 --> 00:33:09,924
Guy: to.

423
00:33:10,483 --> 00:33:10,933
Daniele: But

424
00:33:10,584 --> 00:33:10,944
Guy: Yeah,

425
00:33:10,933 --> 00:33:11,683
Daniele: that that's kind of like

426
00:33:11,604 --> 00:33:11,904
Guy: because

427
00:33:11,683 --> 00:33:12,093
Daniele: a

428
00:33:11,904 --> 00:33:12,294
Guy: they care.

429
00:33:12,523 --> 00:33:12,793
Daniele: Yeah

430
00:33:12,774 --> 00:33:13,074
Guy: Yeah.

431
00:33:12,793 --> 00:33:18,073
Daniele: because they care. Exactly. And uh, and
I think that's, that's kind of like another lens

432
00:33:18,313 --> 00:33:26,083
is, you know, what, what can you do with the
data you have about people to show that you care.

433
00:33:26,683 --> 00:33:32,143
You know, sometimes it's just not using it or
saying to people, We have this data, we're going

434
00:33:32,143 --> 00:33:38,563
to use it for for, you know, we have to use it
from a legal stand of, uh, from a legal point of

435
00:33:38,563 --> 00:33:45,223
view for validating your account and stuff. But
now we've deleted it. You know, that's a very

436
00:33:45,223 --> 00:33:50,713
respectful thing to do so that in other times
it's we have the data, so we're going to feel

437
00:33:50,713 --> 00:33:57,043
stuff for you because we already have it, you
know, and, and I think and sometimes it's just,

438
00:33:57,043 --> 00:34:02,233
you know, revealing that, yes, we have a lot of
data about you and this is all of the data we

439
00:34:02,233 --> 00:34:07,663
have about you, especially for these big
organizations there, that the play you the way

440
00:34:07,663 --> 00:34:14,893
you play with the data is a bit of a way to
showing this is how much we respect you. And

441
00:34:15,163 --> 00:34:17,383
it's quite an interesting, interesting bit.

442
00:34:17,756 --> 00:34:22,556
Guy: Well, I'll certainly remember you. So
thanks again for today, Daniele. It's been a

443
00:34:22,556 --> 00:34:23,426
great conversation.

444
00:34:23,853 --> 00:34:28,533
Daniele: yeah, obviously. And I always remember
to to misspell your name and say, "ɡiː",

445
00:34:28,533 --> 00:34:33,243
instead of "ɡaɪ" because you know, it, it adds
a little bit of fun.

446
00:34:33,090 --> 00:34:33,840
Guy: Je ne sais quoi.

447
00:34:34,060 --> 00:34:34,900
Daniele: Absolutely

448
00:34:36,096 --> 00:34:41,556
Guy: All right. Thanks, Daniele. And, and
hopefully our listeners remember us for the next

449
00:34:41,556 --> 00:34:41,976
episode.