Guy: Welcome to the Service Design Principles on Guy
Guy: Martin, joined by the author of the Service
Guy: Design Principles series of Books, founder of
Guy: the Swiss Innovation Academy and Service Design
Guy: Practitioner. The emblematic Daniele Catalanotto.
Guy: Hi, Daniele.
Daniele: I agree. Such a pleasure as always. Not only to
Daniele: see how you fit your face, but also here, your
Daniele: lovely and beautiful way voice, and to get the
Daniele: chance to chat with your awesome brain.
Guy: Thank you very much. I don't know how to respond
Guy: to that many compliments in a row, but I'll just
Guy: say thank you and say likewise. So that's the
Guy: easiest way out, isn't it?
Guy: So I've said emblematic today because an emblem
Guy: is like a symbol representing something else.
Guy: And every episode we look at some of the
Guy: principles from your book service Design
Guy: Principles 1 to 100. And today we're talking
Guy: about naming what better emblem than that? So
Guy: the book has three principles that relate
Guy: specifically to naming. And as we're both
Guy: parents and unlike certain tech industry
Guy: billionaires, we recognize the importance of a
Guy: good an appropriate name when it comes to our
Guy: children. So a name is just as important in
Guy: business as well.
Daniele: Yes, absolutely. I think there are a few stories
Daniele: that they can share about the importance of a
Daniele: name
Daniele: Back in the days when my parents set up a church
Daniele: in the south of Switzerland. So my parents are
Daniele: both pastors. They set up a church in in the
Daniele: south of Switzerland, and it was a church that
Daniele: wasn't yet of that region. And therefore it was
Daniele: very new for the people out there and they had a
Daniele: bit of a problem. The way usually that church
Daniele: calls its location in French was post. It's like
Daniele: it was called a post, like a post office, which
Daniele: made sense from a historical perspective and
Daniele: things in other regions. But in that region, if
Daniele: you called it a post, people would say, Oh, is
Daniele: this the post office? You know, And they will
Daniele: come in and and say, do you do you sell stamps,
Daniele: you know, and which creates that kind of a very
Daniele: strange relationship for people coming to buy
Daniele: stamps. And then senior pastor say, no, but I
Daniele: can speak about God if you want. So so therefore
Daniele: they had to think about how do we call this, you
Daniele: know, and and there was kind of like a
Daniele: reflection on if we don't choose a name, what
Daniele: will happen is people will choose a name for it.
Guy: Hmm.
Daniele: And which we might not like, which might not
Daniele: give the right values. And so the reflection
Daniele: that they had, they said we don't want our
Daniele: members to call it the post, because if they
Daniele: call it the Post, it makes no sense for the
Daniele: people in the region. And so they said, we're
Daniele: going to call that location at Max's because the
Daniele: street name was called Max Street. And therefore
Daniele: they said, oh, let's call it at Max's. So it's
Daniele: it kind of has this connotation of so this is
Daniele: kind of a family place. It's a place where where
Daniele: we meet and where we're and, you know, like a
Daniele: friend's place. And what they noticed is to make
Daniele: that shift happen, you know, over weeks and
Daniele: months, you know, they had to use that name
Daniele: again and again and again and say to each other,
Daniele: oh, we're going to meet at Max's. We're going to
Daniele: where? Yes, you at the 1 p.m. at Max. Just to
Daniele: create the thing. And now it's like 20 years
Daniele: later. My parents don't work there anymore. But
Daniele: there are new people who are the pastors there.
Daniele: And still today, when people speak of that
Daniele: location, they say, Let's meet at Max's.
Guy: Right.
Daniele: Not at the post.
Guy: Hmm.
Daniele: Which is weird name or as something which would
Daniele: be an acronym know because often then people
Daniele: tell you make an acronym of the long name of.
Daniele: You know, and we'd say, Oh, let's meet at.. It's
Daniele: "The Salvation Army". They would say, Oh, let's
Daniele: meet at TSA.
Guy: Okay.
Daniele: Again, wouldn't mean anything. It wouldn't bring
Daniele: any value. And so they were able to to to buy by
Daniele: design in some way, you know, by by design,
Daniele: choosing a name that has a lot of meaning. And I
Daniele: think this is something that we we can do not
Daniele: only for places, but also for projects.
Guy: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm
Daniele: You know, when you get a new project at work,
Daniele: you know, think, what is the way I'm going to
Daniele: name the file. Each file, you know, when you
Daniele: have file names, usually you have presented John
Daniele: and then something Project X,
Guy: Mmhmm.
Daniele: you know, instead of being Project X, what's the
Daniele: project name that you're going to give it the
Daniele: project, you know, the folder name, the channel
Daniele: name, so that it always gives kind of either the
Daniele: values or the vision that you want for, for
Daniele: people to have.
Guy: Yeah, it's like the codename for the project.
Guy: And in many cases, sometimes the the code name
Guy: or the project name ends up being the product
Guy: name in the end as well, because it just so
Guy: suited that that product really well.
Daniele: Absolutely. And and, you know, a project named
Daniele: can really make or break a project. This is
Daniele: something that I've seen often, is that we are
Daniele: not careful about the project name, you know,
Daniele: and it can create expectations, you know. So for
Daniele: a good example is if you say, oh, we're going to
Daniele: call it strategy or, you know, it's a strategy,
Daniele: and then if you call it project, this is a
Daniele: strategy project, you know, it might create the
Daniele: expectation, Oh, we're going to change
Daniele: everything so I can bring my ideas about
Daniele: changing this and that and that, you know, And
Daniele: then all the stakeholders might say, Oh, if
Daniele: you're doing your strategy, we need to be in the
Daniele: conversation because, hey, it's a strategy.
Guy: Hmm.
Daniele: Important. So we want you to have power on that.
Daniele: Then it starts to become a mess. But if you say
Daniele: no, it's obviously it's something strategic, but
Daniele: it's a strategy of what you know or what
Daniele: strategy is it? Or maybe the word is not
Daniele: strategy, you know, is future of the service.
Daniele: Like, okay, this is another thing. It's much
Daniele: more narrow, much more clear, and therefore a
Daniele: name at work also creates a is extremely
Daniele: important, but also a name for the the your the
Daniele: service you have for the clients is makes a lot
Daniele: of sense to a little example also is when I
Daniele: speak of the Swiss Innovation Academy I've
Daniele: always thought how do I say you? Way because
Daniele: Swiss Innovation Academy is way too long, you
Daniele: know. And so I never say as a a I always said
Daniele: academy and I forced myself to also when I say
Daniele: to my wife, Oh, well, what did you work on today?
Daniele: I said, Oh, the academy stuff. So that's that.
Daniele: When people speak about it in a short way, they
Daniele: use that short thing, which for me gives much
Daniele: more value than if it was an acronym, because
Daniele: the danger with acronyms is there are so many
Daniele: acronyms and they don't mean anything. So think
Daniele: about how your long company name, your long
Daniele: service name, your long project name, what will
Daniele: be the short version of it also?
Guy: So in a former employer of mine, there were
Guy: different groups of people that would come
Guy: together for different things. And depending on
Guy: what the purpose of the the group was, it would
Guy: have a different name. So there would be some
Guy: committees and there would be some councils and
Guy: there would be some working groups and they
Guy: would all have different meanings. And it got to
Guy: the point where it's like, are is this a council
Guy: or is this a committee or is this a working
Guy: group? And it ended up that as part of the
Guy: governance of the organisation, we said, okay,
Guy: well this is what a council does. A council has
Guy: representation from these different divisions
Guy: and they can make a strategic decision about the
Guy: thing that the council is made for. A committee
Guy: doesn't have that decision making ability. They
Guy: have representatives from the different
Guy: divisions, but they need to defer to a higher
Guy: power to make the actual decision. They can
Guy: provide recommendations and then working groups
Guy: are things where you're taking an existing
Guy: strategy and you're saying, how do we execute on
Guy: that strategy? And you still have different
Guy: disciplines that are crossing over to join that
Guy: working group. But then it was clear that, okay,
Guy: it wasn't there to create new strategies or make
Guy: those sorts of decisions around that, but to
Guy: decide how to implement something. So before
Guy: these definitions were made, the names were
Guy: random. It was like, okay, well, I'm going to
Guy: create this Health and Safety Council. But then
Guy: then there would be some people that would say,
Guy: I have certain expectations of what a council
Guy: does, and that would be different to what other
Guy: people, including the people inside, were.
Daniele: Absolutely. And it shows that there is a lot in
Daniele: the name and that sometimes having a bit of
Daniele: clarity, how we name things, you know, what is a
Daniele: committee, what is a working group, etc.,
Daniele: makes a lot of sense. And the same goes for
Daniele: strategy. You know, like
Guy: Mm
Daniele: when we say strategy, what we what do we mean
Daniele: with it? You know, what's what's the meaning
Daniele: behind the word? The word and the and especially
Daniele: for within on the backstage, kind of like the
Daniele: workplace stuff, that's where you can also kind
Daniele: of reveal why did we choose that name,
Guy: hmm.
Daniele: you know, So we're calling this group.
Daniele: Committee, Zebra, because we are working between
Daniele: the lines, you know? Okay. Now, I understand why
Daniele: you're called the zebra as it's not just because
Daniele: it's a fancy African horse. Now it makes much
Daniele: more sense. And yeah, that's definitely
Daniele: something. And but but then there is, you know,
Daniele: as I'm going to steal your your role because
Daniele: your role usually in the podcast is then to say
Daniele: but that really.
Daniele: Context. Be aware. This rule doesn't apply to
Daniele: everything, and I think I'm going to steal that
Daniele: throughout. Because the other thing is obviously
Daniele: it's important to name things.
Guy: H.
Daniele: But it's not needed to reinvent the wheel every
Daniele: time and to invent silly names for standard
Daniele: stuff. You know, Apple does that wonderfully
Daniele: well. You know, where everything they do, you
Daniele: know, it's like the latest is at the time of
Daniele: recording is you know, they are not calling
Daniele: their VR headset a VR headset to it's spatial
Daniele: computing.
Guy: Ron.
Daniele: Which is a completely odd thing, obviously, you
Daniele: know, which there is some some some some reasons
Daniele: behind it and. Etc.. There is also kind of like
Daniele: this notion that sometimes, you know, just using
Daniele: the names that have been defined for specific
Daniele: things, you can use those. And I think your
Daniele: example of in the workplace makes sense also to
Daniele: see, you know, how how do usually other
Daniele: companies or organizations use the names?
Daniele: Committees, work work group, etc.,
Guy: Hmm. Hmm.
Daniele: or council. And what's the definition? And can
Daniele: we just use one of those definitions as a bit of
Daniele: a standard?
Guy: Hmm. Hmm.
Daniele: So it's a bit of this thing when it comes to
Daniele: naming. Sure. Using a name. Having a name for it
Daniele: is important so that we know what we are talking
Daniele: about. But sometimes there is always your name
Daniele: that exists for it. There is already a standard.
Daniele: And if the standard works? No, just use the
Daniele: standard. Don't call it
Daniele: spacial computing when it's just an idea. Or in
Daniele: the case of Apple, maybe it just made sense just
Daniele: to say it, to show people it's different enough.
Guy: I think I think like when you brought the Apple
Guy: example up, I feel that they have used this
Guy: spatial computing term because they want to
Guy: define the the space that they're working. They
Guy: don't they're not saying this isn't just another
Guy: VR headset. This is a whole new way of working
Guy: and define that. So I kind of understand that in
Guy: a way. But then if you're trying to get someone
Guy: on board to help them understand it, then you
Guy: can't just start with spatial computing. You
Guy: sort of go, Oh, well, this is Apple's version of
Guy: a VR headset. You kind of have to relate it back
Guy: to some other term that the person knows already
Guy: and then they can make that connection and say,
Guy: Oh, okay. So that's kind of what this is, but
Guy: it's just Apple's version of it
Daniele: Absolutely. Absolutely. And so that that shows
Daniele: that, you know, have no wing or at least, you
Daniele: know, before. I think that's also that is that.
Daniele: If you invent a new name for it, you know, there
Daniele: should be good reason for it. And
Guy: Hmm.
Daniele: I think obviously Apple has made the reflection
Daniele: and they thought they thought, hey, we we have a
Daniele: bit of another take on it. And this take is
Daniele: different enough that we're going to we're going
Daniele: to call it in another way, because we think
Daniele: there is a kind of a a fear of rupture. Can we
Daniele: say that that in English or kind of like a big
Daniele: difference between
Guy: Hmm. Hmm.
Daniele: how it's done before and how we do it and
Daniele: therefore it needs another name,
Guy: Yeah.
Daniele: but in often off and also sometimes you don't
Daniele: need a fancy name for that specific thing and
Daniele: you can just call it what it is.
Guy: Mm hmm
Daniele: I think in the in the book I speak about an
Daniele: example from a research from the News and Norman
Daniele: Group where on an NGO website, you know, they
Daniele: had kind of a special naming, you know, for. For
Daniele: volunteers and members where they said, Oh,
Daniele: these are called Dreamers here. And then it got
Daniele: people confused, you know, about the whole
Daniele: donating process like they were okay. But I just
Daniele: want to become a member. I don't want to become
Daniele: a dreamer,
Guy: Right.
Daniele: you know? And and so there was kind of like a
Daniele: bit of a for those who a bit nerdy, a bit of a
Daniele: UX copy issue there, you know.
Guy: Mm
Daniele: Trying to rename things that are obvious, like
Daniele: donate button and saying, Oh, this is not about
Daniele: donating, it's about giving hope. And I don't
Daniele: want to give hope. I want to give money. When
Daniele: raised money things.
Guy: Right.
Daniele: That's that's for some aspects. We repeat, we
Daniele: still need to be a bit. Even if it would be fun
Daniele: to have a give hope. But it still should be
Daniele: clear that it's what it is behind it.
Guy: Yeah, it's a it's a financial transaction. And
Guy: not just the Facebook hopes and prayers comment
Guy: that you're going to do.
Daniele: Absolutely.
Guy: Was I was going to say that I can think of, uh,
Guy: a counterexample to this because I can't. I have
Guy: to play the devil's advocate all the time. But
Guy: the Disney Corporation, in their theme parks,
Guy: they have created names for a lot of things
Guy: which are not standard. So when people visit
Guy: their parks, they're not visitors, they're
Guy: they're their guests. And the employees of the
Guy: park are cast. And then you have like in
Guy: actually, like in service design, you have a
Guy: front stage and you have a backstage as well. So
Guy: they have this when a cast member goes out of
Guy: sight of the public and into like a service
Guy: tunnel or something like this, they're going
Guy: backstage and guests are never allowed backstage,
Guy: you know, So they've got all this whole naming
Guy: convention around how they talk about the
Guy: visitors to the park. And I think it's
Guy: intentional and it works well because they want
Guy: to treat everyone like a guest role. And it puts
Guy: that mindset that for the employee, when they're
Guy: a cast member and they go on stage, there is a
Guy: performance that's expected because that's what
Guy: happens when cast members go on stage, they go
Guy: on to perform for guests. So having that sort of
Guy: naming it sounds a bit silly. Like if I went
Guy: down to the the local supermarket and they
Guy: started talking about, you know, their cast
Guy: members, I'd think that they've gone a bit loopy.
Guy: But for Disney, it it works. So I guess again,
Guy: it comes back to this idea of context and where
Guy: it really works for an entertainment company
Guy: like Disney, Disney to use these these terms,
Guy: whereas it may not work for another company
Guy: that's, you know, has nothing to do with, you
Guy: know, entertainment.
Daniele: Yeah, absolutely. And it I think we can have a
Daniele: bit of a two criterias, which are, you know, is
Daniele: the name that you're using context relevant. You
Daniele: know that's I think the question that you're
Daniele: bringing a second one is, you know, does the
Daniele: name add the value in India? For example, in the
Daniele: spirit of what Disney those, you know, same cast.
Daniele: Helps. Also the employee know that once they go
Daniele: to the front stage, they are in another role.
Daniele: They are in the role of being an example for the
Daniele: kids, etc.. So it's not just your normal service
Daniele: job. This is very different. So
Guy: Hmm.
Daniele: it adds its value. And then the third one, which
Daniele: will be a bit of a bit of a bonus, is, you know,
Daniele: does it create a sense of
Daniele: clarity or does it add fuzziness, as was the
Daniele: example of the donate button, which is not
Daniele: called codes in.
Guy: Confusion.
Daniele: Exactly confusion. So if we have this
Daniele: physicality, as is saying, you want to name
Daniele: something, okay, Does the name help with the
Daniele: context? Yes. Does it fit with the context? Yes.
Daniele: Does the name add a value? You know where it
Daniele: tells a story. It helps people to realize what
Daniele: they have to do. It gives them an information.
Daniele: And then the third one, the does it add clarity
Daniele: and does it avoid confusion? If all of these
Daniele: things are true, then the name definitely is
Daniele: needed. If not, maybe just revert back to
Daniele: something that's already existing.
Guy: Yeah, but I guess that brings up that the to be
Guy: intentional when you're choosing names
Daniele: Absolutely.
Guy: as opposed to just, you know, pulling a fun name
Guy: from a hat and going, Oh, this sounds good.
Guy: We'll go with that. Think it through.
Daniele: Absolutely.
Guy: Right.
Daniele: And in that. Think it through aspect I think
Daniele: there there is a bit of the last principle in
Daniele: the in the book about that is this principle 47
Daniele: which says
Daniele: "Don't assume that I know how to spell your
Daniele: company name. ".
Daniele: Especially for fancy made up names, you know.
Daniele: How many "R" are in Fiverr?
Guy: Right? Yeah.
Daniele: The freelance service. And this is a thing that
Daniele: I learned that I learned the hard way. For
Daniele: example, if you mistype fiver,
Daniele: you might land up on a website that every ten
Daniele: times, you know, sends you to a scam website.
Daniele: This is a thing that's happened to me a few
Daniele: times. So just it's a very sneaky thing to do.
Daniele: So they may though they bought the domain with
Daniele: one hour or less. Someone bought that and most
Daniele: of the time they sent you to the right website.
Daniele: So that's in your browser. You know, your
Daniele: browser remembers that this is a good website.
Guy: Hmm.
Daniele: Then sometimes, they send you on a casino
Daniele: website and you're like, Oh, I mistyped
Guy: Yeah.
Daniele: something, you know, and they make money out of
Daniele: it and
Guy: Right.
Daniele: here what what but this shows is that the
Daniele: company when you create a name you know also
Daniele: think about the ways people might mistyped.
Guy: Hmm.
Daniele: So that when they search for it, when they type
Daniele: the name, that they don't land in a scammy place
Daniele: that somebody else might think, yeah, maybe in
Daniele: Switzerland, people don't know that Kellogg's
Daniele: has two G's. And so are we going to buy using
Daniele: Kellogg's with one G and instead of an S, a Z?
Daniele: And so we re going to protect a bit of our name
Daniele: by making sure that even if you misspell it, you
Daniele: still end up in a safe place.
Guy: Yep. Now, that makes a lot of sense. All right.
Guy: And I've seen this before in the companies I
Guy: used to work for. Where you had a lot of A's and
Guy: S's, and there would be a two S's in a row. So
Guy: then I would buy the domain name that only had
Guy: the one s just two to account for those. You
Guy: know, even if it's just a typo or if it's an
Guy: intentional misspelling or something. It was a
Guy: difficult name to say over the phone anyway and
Guy: say, you know, you'd always have to spell it
Guy: that up. So I guess if you find yourself
Guy: spelling out your company name over and over
Guy: again, then there's a lot of potential for it to
Guy: be misinterpreted or typo or those sorts of
Guy: things. So look at the alternatives.
Daniele: Seriously. And I know we have 5 minutes left,
Daniele: but for the 5 minutes we have left. I'd love to
Daniele: put you up again in a bit of an uncomfortable
Daniele: seat by asking you what are your tips or or
Daniele: mistakes that you see happening when it comes to
Daniele: naming in your own experiences with services. Do
Daniele: you have any tips to share?
Guy: I know of. You know, in the cultural side of
Guy: things which I've gone through, there's many
Guy: examples where companies have chosen names for
Guy: their products that work perfectly well in their
Guy: own country, and then they start to go into
Guy: other markets which have different languages,
Guy: and that name tends to not be so welcomed in the
Guy: other country because it's a swearword or it's
Guy: something that's not appropriate for them for
Guy: that particular
Daniele: Hmm.
Guy: product. So I think Ford had this with the with
Guy: the Pinto going into into Mexico or something
Guy: like this. And and there's a lot of other
Guy: examples of this. I'm sure that you can find it
Guy: with a with a search of product names in foreign
Guy: countries or something like this. Um, but yeah,
Guy: I mean,
Guy: when I've looked at, creating names for, for
Guy: products or businesses and things like this,
Guy: I do really consider the sort of name. And you
Guy: know, I have my business, which is Neolux
Guy: Consulting. Neolux has been around for a long,
Guy: long time. I had this way back in Australia when
Guy: I had a small business there. And it's, it's a
Guy: mixture of languages that mean "new light". And
Guy: I don't really know where that came from, but I
Guy: liked the idea and I liked having an X in the
Guy: name and yeah, which makes me sound like another
Guy: tech person. But yeah, I just really liked the
Guy: name. And then, but the second part of that was
Guy: also important. So
Guy: originally it was Neolux Communications and then
Guy: I've had "Systems" and then I've had
Guy: "Consulting" and I felt it was important to say,
Guy: okay, well, what's the primary activity that I'm
Guy: doing? And what is something that is generic
Guy: enough that if I need to pivot, that I could
Guy: keep that same name without, you know, having to
Guy: change all of my letterheads and going to
Guy: business registration and change that sort of
Guy: thing. So "consulting" is very broad, but it's
Guy: more about personal services. So if I'm doing
Guy: hands on work and more contracting work, it's
Guy: not as appropriate. So then you have to go, okay,
Guy: well, maybe "Consulting" is not the right name.
Guy: when I was building websites and web
Guy: applications, then "Systems" made a lot of sense,
Guy: and now I'm doing a little bit with, with
Guy: podcasting and stuff. I'm thinking, okay, well,
Guy: maybe I should register the name Neolux Media or
Guy: Neolux, you know, go back to Communications,
Guy: something like this. So I think it's not just
Guy: the the brand name or the the unique identifier,
Guy: but also the things that you put around. It can
Guy: can be important as well, because it can help to
Guy: explain what you do to other people.
Guy: And then when you get known enough like Apple
Guy: Computer, then you can start to drop off the the
Guy: computer part and just be, you know, Apple. I
Guy: think I'm a fair way away from that.
Daniele: And I think this is a great example because, you
Daniele: know, so many people say, Oh, I love my Neolux
Daniele: name to just be like Apple does. And then you
Daniele: can remember to remind the history of it and say,
Daniele: you know, back in the days when they were not
Daniele: famous, not making billions, they were called
Daniele: Apple computers because they needed to. To make
Daniele: sure that people knew what it was that they were
Daniele: doing and without having to explain it or or or
Daniele: having a tag line or something, you know, having
Daniele: in the name, the activity is is a is a is a very
Daniele: important thing When you're small enough. It
Daniele: just helps a lot. That's also why I've decided
Daniele: to call the the Swiss Innovation Academy Academy,
Daniele: you know, and having Swiss Innovation Academy,
Daniele: which is like the most boring name you could
Daniele: invent ever. Because it's like self explanatory
Daniele: and like, okay, I know what it is. You know,
Daniele: when I arrive on the website, it just by typing
Daniele: it, I know
Guy: Yeah.
Daniele: what it is. And then Neolux Consulting is
Daniele: basically the same. And I think that could be an
Daniele: additional principle that we can definitely give
Daniele: to, to, to small business owners to help avoid
Daniele: the confusion is to have kind of like this
Daniele: unique branded storytelling element with next to
Daniele: it a bit of a of a clarify. Which might be the
Daniele: industry thing. The type of work that is done,
Daniele: the type of service that it is, and and it makes
Daniele: everything clearer.
Guy: I remember with Apple, they got in trouble
Guy: because of Apple Music, which was the rights
Guy: holder for the Beatles music. Or the record
Guy: company that the Beatles music was released
Guy: under.
Guy: So there was a lawsuit back in the day that when
Guy: Apple started to introduce their music services
Guy: with iTunes, that could they be called Apple?
Guy: Because Apple Music and Apple Computer could be
Guy: confused. And usually when we talk about
Guy: trademarks and intellectual property protections
Guy: and things like these, it's okay to have a
Guy: similar name as long as it's not in a similar
Guy: industry. So Apple Computer and Apple Music were
Guy: were definitely not in the same industry. So
Guy: that was fine. But then when Apple started
Guy: getting into music, then it's like, Whoa, hang
Guy: on a minute. There could be potential for
Guy: confusion. So I remember this this lawsuit
Guy: around around this happening. And I think they
Guy: settled in the end. And then we saw the Beatles
Guy: come onto iTunes to big fanfare and all this
Guy: sort of stuff. So they're obviously everyone's
Guy: friends again there, but it just shows how
Guy: important naming is. And I mean, to continue on
Guy: that that thought and I know where maybe we're
Guy: going a little bit over time, but it happens in
Guy: podcasts as well. And there was a recent story
Guy: about a podcast in Australia that took a a the
Guy: name of their podcast, and it was the same name
Guy: as someone else's podcast. And I don't think it
Guy: was intentional. But it ended up that they
Guy: neither wanted to change. And the original
Guy: podcast was quite well known and had got a lot
Guy: of followers. And the new one was like, Well, I
Guy: don't think I should have to change my name.
Guy: Eventually it came to a lawsuit and the new
Guy: person lost to say, okay, you cannot use this
Guy: name for your podcast because it's the same as
Guy: this other name and there can be confusion there.
Guy: So it was different topics, but it had very
Guy: similar names. So this is naming is being tested
Guy: all the time and it can apply to things that you
Guy: don't think are important, but then suddenly it
Guy: becomes extremely important. So it's just, you
Guy: know, having thinking about names is
Guy: it's something that you need to spend a lot of
Guy: time on. And do a lot of research on as well.
Guy: You know, check is the dot com available. If
Guy: it's not available, who's got it? Could it be a
Guy: conflict with you? And not just the dotcom, but,
Guy: you know, the dot D-E, the dot F-R the you know,
Guy: in different countries and things like this. So
Guy: yeah, just we were talking about for small
Guy: businesses, this is a good place to start is to,
Guy: you know, do your research on this particular
Guy: name and see if there's a potential for problems
Guy: further down the track.
Daniele: I love how, you know, every one of those aspects.
Daniele: You know, once you go and go deep enough, you
Daniele: know, you see always that there is a a level of
Daniele: complexity that you can that you can explore.
Daniele: But if we keep it
Daniele: on a on a summary level for today, I'd say think
Daniele: about the names that you give to your company,
Daniele: to your services, to the processes that you're
Daniele: having to the meetings you're having, to the
Daniele: projects you're having. Think about those. Think
Daniele: about these criterias. So does it add clarity?
Daniele: Does it add meaning and is it distinguishable
Daniele: enough? So let's a few things that we've talked
Daniele: about. And and then, you know, realize when.
Daniele: When it's needed a new name because it adds a
Daniele: level of meaning that is so great and so
Daniele: important. And when you can just spare yourself
Daniele: a bit of trouble and work and just use a name
Daniele: that already exists.
Guy: That's a great wrap up. Thank you very much,
Guy: Daniele, and thank you for the conversation
Guy: today. It's been very enlightening, as always.
Daniele: Thanks to you, Guy, for hosting. Producing,
Daniele: managing, scheduling and overworking. All the
Daniele: things that you're doing for this podcast.
Daniele: You're doing a lot of work again in the
Daniele: backstage and I'm extremely thankful for all of
Daniele: it
Guy: It's always a pleasure. See you on the next
Guy: episode.
Daniele: Cheers.
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