1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,580 (upbeat music) 2 00:00:02,580 --> 00:00:09,600 LAUREN: Hello and welcome listeners. 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:11,840 You are listening to Stories of Openness, 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:13,880 a limited series podcast created 5 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,640 by the Open Education team at Deakin University Library. 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,800 My name is Lauren Halcomb-Smith and I'm your host. 7 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,320 I'm a lecturer of Open Education at Deakin 8 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,640 and I'm on a mission to explore the impact 9 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,800 that Open Educational Resources or OER 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,680 are having on learning and teaching at Deakin. 11 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,680 OER are free textbooks and other learning materials 12 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,040 that anyone can use, adapt and share 13 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:38,480 unlike traditional textbooks 14 00:00:38,480 --> 00:00:40,120 that are locked behind high costs 15 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:41,640 and copyright restrictions. 16 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,080 In this series, I'm talking with Deakin academics 17 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:45,880 about their experiences of creating 18 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,040 and using Open Resources. 19 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,200 This podcast is part of a research project 20 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,040 that uses podcasting as a research methodology. 21 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,240 So this conversation is both a podcast 22 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,480 and open research data. 23 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,320 I'm coming to you today from the beautiful, 24 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,760 traditional and unseated lands of the Wurundjeri people. 25 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,400 I gratefully acknowledge them as the traditional custodians 26 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,400 of these lands, seas and skies 27 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,360 and recognise that this has been a place 28 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,960 of learning, teaching and rich conversation for millennia. 29 00:01:12,960 --> 00:01:16,480 And today, I am joined by the wonderful Jacqui McGregor 30 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,800 who is a longtime lecturer in Deakin's School 31 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:20,360 of Nursing and Midwifery. 32 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,160 Jacqui is a dual registered nurse and midwife 33 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,040 with extensive clinical experience 34 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,280 and has both a Master of Advanced Nursing neonatal 35 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,040 and a postgraduate qualification in neonatal intensive care 36 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,480 and higher education teaching and learning. 37 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:36,600 And today, we are chatting with Jacqui 38 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,920 about her recently published Open Textbook 39 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,520 called Neonatal Care Essentials for Nursing and Midwifery, 40 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,960 a first in Australia resource for student midwives and nurses. 41 00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:49,920 The resource aims to provide an entry-level understanding 42 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,600 of the role of the nurse midwife in the neonatal environment 43 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,320 and is uniquely structured around the key concepts 44 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,640 of warm, sweet, pink and calm. 45 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:00,560 Welcome, Jacqui. 46 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,400 Thank you so much for being here with me today. 47 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,440 Now, I'm really curious what led you 48 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,640 to want to create this amazing OER? 49 00:02:08,640 --> 00:02:12,400 JACQUI: I could probably recap a bit of what you have just outlined. 50 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:17,400 So a lot of our students, resources, are expensive. 51 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,800 So in terms of accessing the text, 52 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,280 they're quite expensive for the students to purchase. 53 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,680 Originally, the idea came about for our midwifery cohort 54 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,880 who this one neonatal unit is just 55 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,560 well, a small component of their whole four-year double degree. 56 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,400 So to purchase a book for one unit 57 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,400 was probably financially not viable for a lot of them, 58 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,360 given the cost of the resources. 59 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,080 So we're thinking how could we help these students access 60 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,160 the information they needed without having to go and purchase 61 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,280 a very expensive book that wasn't available as an e-book? 62 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,920 The resources that are currently available 63 00:02:56,920 --> 00:03:00,920 for neonatal specific content is generally aimed 64 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:02,840 at neonatal intensive care. 65 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,760 And our student cohort at Deakin looking 66 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,800 at undergraduate studies either in midwifery 67 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,720 or we offer a neonatal elective. 68 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,440 So the pitch of the current texts were also very high. 69 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,680 So not only was the cost a lot for the students, 70 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,640 but also they were pitched at a level 71 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:26,200 that was beyond what the scope of the practice 72 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,320 that they needed to be in. 73 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,240 LAUREN: Do you remember how much the textbook was? 74 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:36,760 JACQUI: Look, they ranged from anywhere from $170 up to $200 plus, 75 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,080 depending on which resource the students were looking at. 76 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,840 But as I said, with the access through the library, 77 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,000 the most current additions, 78 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:48,960 they were only able to access certain chapters 79 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,200 that we nominated, they weren't able to get the whole text, 80 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,960 which sort of then made us have to pick and choose 81 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:56,560 what was available if we were going to do it 82 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,360 through an e-book option for them. 83 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,640 But as I said, also the level of information there was a lot 84 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,600 for them to sift through when we just really 85 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:06,360 wanted them at an entry level. 86 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,640 LAUREN: What I heard is it wasn't fit for purpose 87 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,200 because it was for more of an intensive care. 88 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:16,440 JACQUI: So it was the current text for neonatal is pitched 89 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,560 at a level where the babies are an intensive care 90 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,880 requiring invasive procedures, evasive ventilation 91 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:24,040 and support. 92 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,840 The unit we’re providing for the students here at Deakin 93 00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:30,120 was for caring for infants in the special care. 94 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,200 So the acuity is different from what they would have 95 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,000 been if they were looking after babies in the NICU. 96 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,960 We also found that previously when we didn't have this resource, 97 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,480 when we pitched our assessment task and we used a case study, 98 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,120 they would all go and open those text books 99 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,440 and give us information that was beyond their scope of practice. 100 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,360 So they were telling us about interventions 101 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,800 that were way beyond their capability 102 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,960 and not relevant for the care that we were actually 103 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,000 wanting them to draw on. 104 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,920 LAUREN: And were the previous resources available 105 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:05,960 appropriate for an Australian context? 106 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,200 JACQUI There is only one Australian context 107 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,600 neonatal intensive care book. So yes, it's relevant 108 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,640 for the Australian context, but as I said, 109 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:18,040 it was designed for students undertaking postgraduate studies 110 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,640 in neonatal intensive care, so that higher actuity. 111 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,640 LAUREN: And so you said to yourself, it's time for us 112 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:26,720 to put together something for these students 113 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,320 that meets their needs and is fit for purpose. 114 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:30,240 What happened next? 115 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,720 JACQUI: Yeah, so well, I met with the library team 116 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,480 that have the big initiative behind all of this OER 117 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,480 and they were really responsive 118 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,080 for what I was wanting to do and really encouraging. 119 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:46,440 So I set about looking at which way I could do it. 120 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,240 Now, I had a lot of years of experience 121 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:50,920 in neonatal intensive care myself. 122 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,160 So I have a lot of information in my head, 123 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:57,160 but I needed to really draw it down to be specific 124 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,120 to that special care entry level. 125 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,200 I also had worked recently, well, in the past 10 years, 126 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:08,560 I had been working clinically as a leader of an education 127 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,080 department in nursing and midwifery. 128 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,600 So I had dealt with a lot of students coming through placements. 129 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:18,160 So I knew where we were needing to pitch this resource. 130 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,560 So I, embarked on whether, did I do it as a lecture style, 131 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,800 did I do it as a book, and initially, I started with a book 132 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,200 and had way too much information. 133 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,120 I think because of my NICU background, 134 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,320 I was pitching it way too hard and then just went, 135 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:33,800 "No, this is not right." 136 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:38,280 So when did a huge edit. Removed a lot of contents 137 00:06:38,280 --> 00:06:42,160 so that it was just specific for what they were going to care for 138 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,320 in a special care nursery environment. 139 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,200 So a little bit of pathophysiology, 140 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,480 but majority is the immediate management. 141 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:55,400 I felt that the management was where they needed to start. 142 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,160 And then if they were really keen on working in that area, 143 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,200 they would go and do their own postgraduate studies 144 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,640 and then get more of that pathophysiology behind. 145 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,480 So there is a little bit of introductory pathophysiology, 146 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,080 but the majority is keeping those babies warm, 147 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:09,640 sweet, pink and calm. 148 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,880 LAUREN: Tell us a little more about that concept, 149 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,800 the warm, sweet, pink calm, 150 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,680 because you've structured the book around those four key ideas. 151 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,640 JACQUI: In terms of warm, sweet, pink and calm, 152 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,920 it's sort of an acronym that we use a lot in the nursery 153 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:27,040 because they all feed into each other with newborn babies. 154 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,360 Basically, warm being thermoregulation, 155 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,440 we need to maintain the baby's temperature in a certain range. 156 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,960 And if we don't maintain the baby's temperatures 157 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,960 when they're newborns in a neutral thermal range, 158 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,760 we find that they then start using glucose, which is the sweet. 159 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,640 So to warm themselves up, they'll start using metabolism 160 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:49,360 and they'll use their sugar. 161 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,360 They'll also start using their oxygen, which is pink. 162 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,680 So it's how all of those concepts sort of interplay. 163 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:58,520 And I guess that warm, sweet, pink calm 164 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,720 is a good way of people just remembering 165 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,560 that that's what we need to do. 166 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,560 And calm being keeping that baby in a 167 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,840 developmentally appropriate environment, 168 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:09,440 but also including the parents. 169 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,640 LAUREN: And when you read the book, 170 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,840 I love how those concepts are continually reinforced. 171 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,000 Like in the first section, that's about warm. 172 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:20,720 It's not just the title, 173 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,640 and then you go into the really detailed technical terminology. 174 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,680 The concept of warm is reinforced throughout that chapter. 175 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:33,680 JACQUI: And as I said, it's so vital that the students understand 176 00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:36,880 that the impact of how they react 177 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,200 if a baby is cold or if the baby's too hot, 178 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,240 but more often we tend to have babies that are on the cooler side 179 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:45,720 and that's environmental. 180 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,080 They take on the temperature of a cold surface 181 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,400 or a cold stethoscope that may be placed on their chest 182 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,480 or if there's a breeze going across them. 183 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,640 So it's getting them really working in that environment 184 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,960 and have been aware of what's going on in certain areas 185 00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:01,680 and how that can impact their temperature. 186 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:03,120 Because if they are cold, 187 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,640 they inevitably will be hypoglycaemic 188 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,240 so they'll start using their sugar and drop that. 189 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,680 They have very minimal reserves of sugars 190 00:09:10,680 --> 00:09:12,760 when they're first born because they've relied on 191 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:14,800 that being supplied by the mum. 192 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:20,040 So maternal side in utero is delivered by the mum. 193 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,080 And then so when they're born, 194 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,560 unless they are able to attach to the breast and start breastfeeding, 195 00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:27,520 which most of these babies have come to the nursery 196 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,760 because there is other underlying problems. 197 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,520 So they may not be able to get breast milk straight away. 198 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,120 So we've got to look at what other sources we can provide glucose. 199 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,920 So that's how it all interplays really well. 200 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:41,880 And as you said, even though warm is really the first chapter, 201 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,920 it will come into play in all of the other chapters 202 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,600 because at the end I've got nursing management 203 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,320 and then I'll say nursing management of the hypothermic baby, 204 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,960 the baby that's got a low temperature will be in glucose. 205 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,400 So yes, you're going to have to provide that glucose. 206 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,320 So there's a lot of interplay throughout. 207 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,440 LAUREN: And the book has lots of elements besides just text. 208 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,040 There's pop out blocks with key concepts highlighted. 209 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,960 There's little quizzes and interactivity and beautiful pictures. 210 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,040 What was the choice behind all of that? 211 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,120 JACQUI: It was to make it a little bit more interactive 212 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,040 because most texts, it's just a lot of content. 213 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:21,960 Having those little pop out quizzes 214 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:26,200 was to enable them to check their knowledge as they go through. 215 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,080 And sometimes that means that they may not need to read the chapter. 216 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,200 They could go straight to the quiz, take the quiz and think, 217 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:35,640 "Oh, well, actually I do need to brush up a little bit more on that." 218 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,000 It's also a good way for them if they're exam prepping 219 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,440 or something like that. 220 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:44,200 Although we are, as a whole, all universities are moving away 221 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,880 probably to a more authentic way of assessing students 222 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,040 and that exam sort of thing is going out the door. 223 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,320 But it will help them in simulations 224 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,880 and those sort of more simulated theory-based questions 225 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:57,840 that we ask as well. 226 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:03,560 So they can do their revision through those little pop up quizzes. 227 00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:06,680 The pictures also draw a lot of attention to the eye. 228 00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:09,800 So it does make the book a little bit more engaging. 229 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,440 But some of the pictures also that we'd found 230 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,320 that we could use were open access for us to be able to utilise 231 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,160 were to remove text. 232 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,880 So they, instead of having it written in text, 233 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,080 were able to use a visual colourful diagram 234 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,880 and that sort of remove that sort of death-by-reading. 235 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:28,760 LAUREN: Amazing. 236 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,560 And what you're referring to with the open source images 237 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:35,040 is you've chosen all the images in the book 238 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,440 to have an open license, which means that every single component 239 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,880 of the book can be reused by someone else in a different context. 240 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,360 JACQUI: Yes, that's correct. 241 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,160 And initially, I had some diagrams in there 242 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,000 and I worked really closely with the copyright team. 243 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,120 So we had to go and source similar diagrams 244 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,960 to enable that they could all be freely used again. 245 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:56,880 LAUREN: And who's using the book right now? 246 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:57,680 JACQUI: Funny you should say that. 247 00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:01,240 I saw that ChatGPT has been in there since it's been published. 248 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,520 I've had other universities reach out 249 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:05,440 and saying that they're going to implement it 250 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,800 into their midwifery program, which was really nice to hear. 251 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:14,120 We at Deakin are using it for our undergraduate midwifery students 252 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,760 as well as we do run a postgraduate midwifery course 253 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:18,720 as well here at Deakin. 254 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,720 So our postgraduate midwifery 255 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,200 and we have an undergraduate neonatal elective. 256 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,400 So it's available in all of those three units 257 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,400 as our core resource. 258 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,920 We do enable the students also 259 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,280 or we put down other recommended texts 260 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,000 so that they can actually go and refer back to. 261 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,800 Because a lot of the information that I've provided 262 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,120 isn't firsthand knowledge of my own. 263 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,000 I have gone and used all of the multiple resources. 264 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,360 So those resources, if their students do want to extend their knowledge 265 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,680 in pathophysiology are available for the students 266 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:53,400 to go out and source themselves. 267 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,800 LAUREN: And it's so easy for them because every chapter has a table, 268 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,840 a list of references with a clickable link to the original source. 269 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:00,520 JACQUI: Yes. 270 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,760 LAUREN: So three different units at Deakin are using the textbook. 271 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,880 How many students do you think that is? 272 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:06,720 JACQUI: Probably, 273 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:11,760 well, so the neonatal elective, it's run twice in a year. 274 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,960 So in trimesters, one and three. 275 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,840 And can be anywhere between 60 to 80 students 276 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,080 taking that alone in both trimesters. 277 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,040 So you could be looking at 160 students 278 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,360 say taking it as an elective. 279 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,800 And then we'll have around about 50 postgrad a year 280 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,000 and about the equivalent in the undergrad. 281 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,960 So 260 students probably. 282 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,360 LAUREN: And if we did the maths, that's an astronomical amount 283 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,480 of savings for students given the textbook, 284 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,400 you said, is $160. 285 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:43,160 JACQUI: Absolutely. 286 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,640 And as I said, a lot of those textbooks 287 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,760 after they've finished this one unit of study, 288 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:52,240 unless they find working in the neonatal area, 289 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:58,200 Invigorating, like my passion, they tend to then just collect dust. 290 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,760 They would have purchased the book for one unit of study. 291 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,680 And then it would sit on their bookshelf as a bookend. 292 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:07,520 So this way, they couldn't go back in access. 293 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,560 And interestingly, I had a student who did the unit last year 294 00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:14,080 and she's come back and said, well, I've now 295 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,360 taken this link with me, I can use it in the future. 296 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:21,520 So she said, I've always can just jump on if I want to check 297 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,960 something because it is relevant for midwives 298 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,320 that work in births suite because those babies 299 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,840 still need to be kept warm, sweet, pink in birth suite. 300 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:29,920 And they've still got a family. 301 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,240 So calm is very important as well. 302 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:33,520 And even the postnatal floor. 303 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:38,320 So it is relevant across the board of the midwifery continuum. 304 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,840 So I guess the resources, it's good 305 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:42,720 that they can click on a link and it's 306 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,560 there for them if they need the information. 307 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,880 LAUREN: It's so easy to access the book compared 308 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,920 to accessing an e-book through a traditional subscription 309 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:52,960 method where every single publisher uses 310 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:53,960 a different platform. 311 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,920 And it's so many logins to get to the resource. 312 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:57,840 Whereas this, 313 00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:59,600 If you've typed it once into your browser, 314 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,720 you just have to type in a title, and it's there again. 315 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,920 JACQUI: And I think the other good thing is that the way it's laid out, 316 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,320 I've enabled that the management is separate 317 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:09,840 from the pathophysiology. 318 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,920 So if they're wanting specifically strategies 319 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,160 to help warm a baby up that has got respiratory distress, 320 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,160 they can just go to that chapter into the management 321 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,200 and find the appropriate methods that they can use. 322 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,080 LAUREN: Now, are you hearing any stories from students 323 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,440 about how they're using it and how they're finding it? 324 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,920 JACQUI: Well, as it was only officially published 325 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,680 at the end of the year, our only current cohort 326 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,920 that had it as an official published access 327 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,160 was the students that have just finished T3. 328 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,280 And I personally didn't take that unit this year, 329 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:45,360 but I had a link in my neonatal unit from last year. 330 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,200 And I found the students reached out 331 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:48,400 and said it was really helpful when 332 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,560 they were prepping for their exam. 333 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,120 So they found that the exam prepping was really straightforward. 334 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,000 They didn't get the link until sort of towards the middle 335 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,800 of the unit. 336 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,120 So they didn't find the benefits from the case study, 337 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,400 which really would have benefited from them. 338 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,120 Ask me that question in six months’ time 339 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,200 when they're in, the unit's been run again. 340 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,080 I think I'll have a lot more positive feedback 341 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:12,880 from the students because they'll be able to use it 342 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:14,680 for their case study as well. 343 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,000 LAUREN: And you're about to start teaching. 344 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,800 It's the first day of T1 today, actually. 345 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,080 You're about to start teaching with the textbook 346 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:21,960 in this trimester. 347 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,400 JACQUI: It'll be used again in the neonatal elective, 348 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,320 this trimester, so yes, I can get feedback. 349 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,520 And then in T2, we will have the midwifery cohorts 350 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:32,720 doing their unit. 351 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,920 LAUREN: And how are you going to change your teaching 352 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,440 now that you have this published resource available to you? 353 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,720 JACQUI: A lot of referencing will go back to the resource 354 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,840 so that when the students inquisitive and inquiring 355 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,600 about more, I can refer them back to the actual resource. 356 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,400 I'm also hoping that I'm going to start embedding it more 357 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,040 with links in the text and in there before the seminar. 358 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,880 We have a modular page before the seminar 359 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,720 for students to prep prior to their face-to-face seminars. 360 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,720 I'll use it a lot more in there so that they can come prepared 361 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:09,640 and with questions ready to go. 362 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,440 LAUREN: So that sounds to me like it's going 363 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,680 to help facilitate a flipped classroom environment 364 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,120 where the students can do more of the foundational conceptual 365 00:17:18,120 --> 00:17:21,320 reading and then use their face-to-face time 366 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,040 with the instructor and their colleagues 367 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,920 for sort of more engaged participatory learning. 368 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,280 JACQUI: Yeah, and that enables them to ask more questions and more 369 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,840 the why, why have you done it that way? 370 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,160 If they haven't been able to sort of nut through that themselves 371 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,520 or gone and sourced other information, they think, 372 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:42,640 yes, absolutely, that flipped classroom. 373 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:44,920 LAUREN: So you won't have to spend as much of your time 374 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,760 explaining basic concepts? 375 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,640 JACQUI: Well, that's hopefully the plan is absolutely. 376 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,520 But I mean, there's always the students that students' life 377 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:53,960 is very busy as we understand. 378 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,840 Like they're usually juggling studies, 379 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,800 a job outside of university as well, 380 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,360 and then trying to multiple of other units to look at as well. 381 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:07,360 So yes, the idea is that they can come prepared, 382 00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:10,960 but also it's a resource that they can have open in the class. 383 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:12,160 Should I ask questions? 384 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,120 They can then go and look for the answers first. 385 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:18,840 We do a lot of case-based type learning in the seminars 386 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:23,160 so they could go and use that resource and respond appropriately. 387 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,880 LAUREN: Having been on this journey for three years now, 388 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,320 going into the third year, 389 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:31,640 how has being so involved in open education informed 390 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,400 way that you think about teaching and resources? 391 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,400 JACQUI: Well, I think it's been really a great journey. 392 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,200 And as I said, initially, I think I had way too much 393 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,200 information available and needed to really tailor it 394 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,360 to the audience that it was meant to be for, 395 00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:47,440 which was that entry level. 396 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,120 It has inspired me to do more. 397 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:52,640 I would like to actually make a more of an interactive part 398 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,400 at the end where a bit like a treasure island, 399 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,560 choose your own adventure, have a case study, 400 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,760 and then based on the student's responses, 401 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,760 could take them different ways. 402 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:05,520 Is what I really would like to have at the end. 403 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,720 So they can see the impact of what they do or don't do 404 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,040 and how that can affect the outcome. 405 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,160 So that is really what I'd like to do at the end of that book. 406 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,760 So that I'm inspired to keep doing something. 407 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,760 LAUREN: And the cool thing about open education 408 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,520 and open educational resources is you can continually update 409 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:24,800 the book with new content. 410 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,520 And you can actually involve your students 411 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,400 in generating some of that content. 412 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,320 So those contributions from the branching pathways, 413 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:32,920 choose your own adventure you're describing 414 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,560 could actually become content. 415 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,400 And then that opens up a world of possibility 416 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,880 for students feeling invested and involved 417 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:41,560 in contributing to a resource. 418 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,640 JACQUI: Yeah, and I'm hoping when I was speaking 419 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,920 to the library and staff the other day about 420 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,440 trying to get a bit more feedback from our current students. 421 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,760 So we're sort of thinking how we could design 422 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,400 to get some more responses so that the book 423 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,680 can be exactly that tailored more specifically to their needs. 424 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:04,160 So where they want more information or more detail 425 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,640 or if they want things ordered a little bit differently as well. 426 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,880 LAUREN: And you were saying that the book is being picked up 427 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,360 by other universities in Australia. 428 00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:15,400 What sort of things are you hearing from them? 429 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,680 JACQUI: Basically, it was the day that it was officially launched 430 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,160 I received an e-mail from another university 431 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,560 just saying our library has suggested 432 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,240 this resource would be good for our unit. 433 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:26,880 She has, I've looked through it. 434 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:27,720 Looks amazing. 435 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,200 We'll definitely be implementing it. 436 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,680 Loved the way it flows. 437 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:33,840 So that was really sort of positive. 438 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,960 Yeah, I sort of thought, oh well, let's make it really worth it. 439 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,800 And then there's opportunities as well. 440 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:43,400 There are possibilities that the resource could be used by anyone. 441 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,640 And a lot of hospitals do have sort of an entry-level transitions 442 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,440 to specialty practice programs in-house. 443 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,400 So they will be able to use that as a resource as well for staff. 444 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,600 So they employ people into the nurseries 445 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,800 that may not have ever even changed a baby's nappy. 446 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,440 It'll become a resource that they could openly use as well. 447 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,280 LAUREN: What other stories about the impact of the OER do you have to share? 448 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,120 JACQUI: As I said, it's been really in its infancy at the moment 449 00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:14,360 with it only officially being launched late in 2025. 450 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:18,000 Other than the cohort that I had in the middle of the year, 451 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,760 which I gave a link to, I don't know if I got as much engagement 452 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,960 out of that as I would have liked, 453 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,240 because students, unless it's glaringly lights and sirens, 454 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,240 sometimes don't go and actively seek and click on a link. 455 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,760 I'm hoping with the OER, it's got a beautiful front cover, 456 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,720 very captive to the eye. 457 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,520 That is what I'm going to use within the unit this year 458 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,600 so that they will actually visually see, 459 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,840 and then they might be more likely to click on the link and use it. 460 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,800 In answer to that question, watch this face. 461 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,040 LAUREN: Well, you'll have to come back again in a year's time 462 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,520 and tell us about more of the impact it's having. 463 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,600 Now, as you know, we're recording this podcast 464 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,000 as part of a research project. 465 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,040 And so I'm curious to hear from you what you think it all means. 466 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,600 What can your stories tell us about the impact 467 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,800 that open educational resources can have, 468 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,120 do have, on learning and teaching? 469 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:18,600 JACQUI: I think it enables an even playing field 470 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,040 for all students to access. 471 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,960 So if they don't have the financial resources 472 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,120 to purchase a textbook, it's there. 473 00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:26,920 It's available for everybody. 474 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,920 It is in terms of the discipline that it's been designed for. 475 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,000 It's at an entry level, which is appropriate. 476 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,520 Whereas the textbooks that were available 477 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,680 was not set at that level. 478 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,480 It's appropriate for the population of students. 479 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:44,880 It was designed for. 480 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,160 It's free, so they don't have to outlay any money. 481 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,000 As you said, it's got the advantages 482 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,360 that I can keep updating it. 483 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:54,520 Whereas a traditional textbook every three to four years, 484 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,160 it goes back out to chapter authors 485 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:02,000 to re-envigorate or make sure that it's current practice. 486 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,680 So I think with an OER, 487 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,680 there's a lot more advantages 488 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,880 that I can keep updating that as latest changes. 489 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:10,960 I think it will have a lot of impact... 490 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,080 OERs have a lot of impact in terms 491 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:14,600 that we can get information out there 492 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,680 that is current more readily than a textbook can. 493 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,840 LAUREN: Before we close, Jacqui, 494 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,520 do you have a favourite part of the OER? 495 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,960 JACQUI: I really like how the library team got really behind me 496 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,760 in all of this and were able to resource 497 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,240 some really colourful creative pictures and diagrams. 498 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:35,400 It's very drawing to the eye. 499 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,280 The front coverer is not specifically chosen 500 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:40,840 other than it was appropriate, 501 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,080 it was a bright, brightly coloured, it draws the eye. 502 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,280 I also like that we've got those quizzes, 503 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,480 but more importantly, I like how that at the end of every chapter, 504 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,000 I've made it uniform so that particular conditions, 505 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,080 they can look at caring for a baby 506 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,840 that's got respiratory distress 507 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,400 and knowing how do you keep it warm, sweet, pink 508 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,960 and calm based on whether it's born as a pre-term baby 509 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,480 or if it's a more-term baby 510 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,520 that needed a special care admission. 511 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,680 So I guess the management chapters I really like, 512 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,960 but the colourful pictures and diagrams as well. 513 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,160 LAUREN: It is a very beautiful book to look at, 514 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,280 very polished and very professional in its presentation. 515 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:23,200 It's lovely. 516 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,360 I have absolutely no expertise 517 00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:28,240 beyond my lived experience of having children 518 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,800 and it's engaging and wonderful to look at, 519 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,440 and I've really enjoyed getting to explore it. 520 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:34,920 JACQUI: Thank you. 521 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,400 LAUREN: Alrighty, well, that brings us to the end of our conversation. 522 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,240 Thank you, Jacqui. JACQUI: Thank you. 523 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,600 LAUREN: Stories of Openness is a limited series 524 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,080 from the Open Education team at Deakin University Library. 525 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,720 It's part of a research-by-podcast project, 526 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,560 led by me, Lauren Halcomb-Smith, 527 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,000 with Angie Williamson, Danni Johnson, and Eddie Pavuna. 528 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,000 We choose Open wherever possible, including Audacity 529 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,920 for Editing, Castopod for hosting, 530 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,400 and music by Scott Holmes Music. 531 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,200 This podcast by Deakin University is licensed 532 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,640 under a CC-BY-NC license. 533 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,120 For more information and full acknowledgements, 534 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:12,880 please see our show notes. 535 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,460 (gentle music) 536 00:25:15,460 --> 00:25:17,725 [BLANK_AUDIO]