1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,580 (upbeat music) 2 00:00:02,580 --> 00:00:09,160 LAUREN: Hello and welcome listeners. 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,840 You are listening to Stories of Openness, 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,320 a limited series podcast created by the Open Education team 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,040 at Deakin University Library. 6 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,480 My name is Lauren Halcomb-Smith and I'm your host. 7 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,080 I'm a lecturer of Open Education at Deakin 8 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:25,760 and I'm on a mission to explore the impact 9 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,000 that Open Educational Resources or OER 10 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,240 are having on learning and teaching at Deakin. 11 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,360 OER are free textbooks and other learning materials 12 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,520 that anyone can use, adapt and share, 13 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,920 unlike traditional textbooks that can be locked 14 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,120 behind high costs and copyright restrictions. 15 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,720 In this series, I'm talking with Deakin academics 16 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:48,960 about their experiences of creating 17 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,040 and using Open Resources. 18 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,320 This podcast is part of a research project 19 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,320 that uses podcasting as a research methodology. 20 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,920 So this conversation is both a podcast 21 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,240 and open research data. 22 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,600 I'm coming to you today from the beautiful 23 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,520 traditional and unceded lands of the Boonwurrung people. 24 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,440 I gratefully acknowledge them as the traditional custodians 25 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,080 of these lands, seas and skies and recognize 26 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,840 that this has been a place of learning, teaching 27 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,200 and rich conversation for millennia. 28 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,840 My guest today is Siva Krishnan, 29 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,160 Associate Head of School and Associate Professor 30 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,800 of Engineering at Deakin University's School of Engineering. 31 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,800 Siva is an engineer by training, 32 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:30,520 but over the last 15 years, 33 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,800 he is focused on curriculum leadership 34 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:34,920 and support for course design. 35 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,920 Siva has mentored academic and professional staff 36 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:39,720 in curriculum and assessment design 37 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,680 with a particular focus on design for learner engagement 38 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:45,200 and agency. 39 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,440 Siva is also a co-author of a brand new OER called 40 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,400 Communication and Teamwork Skills to Support Neurodiversity. 41 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,360 The book is designed for staff and students 42 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,640 to support the neurodiverse student body 43 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,240 in developing two key professional practice skills, 44 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,160 Communication and Teamwork Skills. 45 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:05,360 Welcome, Siva. 46 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,600 I'm so excited about this conversation 47 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,640 'cause your OER is amazing. 48 00:02:09,640 --> 00:02:11,480 Thank you so much for being here today. 49 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:12,320 SIVA: - Thank you, Lauren. 50 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:13,360 Thank you for having me 51 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,360 and thank you for that lovely introduction. 52 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:16,840 LAUREN: - Oh, you're so welcome. 53 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,120 I am really curious, Siva, how an engineer 54 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,480 and associate head of school came to create an OER. 55 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,000 SIVA – That’s a very interesting question, 56 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,840 one that goes back a long way. 57 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:32,360 So before academia I used to work as a hardware design engineer, 58 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,600 and I worked in the field for over 10 years 59 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,600 across different industries. 60 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,360 Part of my role was to mentor junior engineers 61 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,840 and acclimatise them for practice 62 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,400 and through that experience, 63 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,000 I developed a flair for teaching and learning 64 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,640 and made the decision to move to academia 65 00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:58,480 after the initial 10 years of working as an engineer. 66 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,000 Deakin was a second university for me, 67 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,040 so I started working at Newcastle University 68 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,160 and then I moved to Deakin in 2013. 69 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,200 And at that time, the School of Engineering 70 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,040 was going through a transition, 71 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,720 a major transition from the traditional lecture-based 72 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,520 tutorial focused education system 73 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,400 to more hands-on project-based. 74 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,680 More relevant to what employees are looking for 75 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,240 in graduate engineers. 76 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,280 And so the school was thinking about transitioning 77 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,280 to a project-oriented design-based learning pedagogy. 78 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,520 So what that means is about 50% of our units 79 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,920 within our undergraduate engineer in curriculum 80 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:40,400 requires students to participate 81 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,240 in project-oriented activities, 82 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,720 so working in small teams, 83 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,080 working with each other, 84 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:51,640 Learning with, learning about, and learning from each other 85 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:53,920 while they're working on those projects. 86 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:55,080 So half of the time, 87 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,840 they're actually being training engineers. 88 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,720 Now this is a fantastic opportunity for students 89 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:02,360 to learn to develop the skills 90 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,560 and be ready for practice. 91 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,360 But equally, it's also challenging 92 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,720 for students who are neurodivergent. 93 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:10,680 And so we had a lot of students, 94 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,800 which we didn't really think about at that time. 95 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,480 So it's a problem that we have been 96 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,960 as for facing over the last 10 years 97 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,800 in understanding why do students struggle 98 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,920 working in small team environments? 99 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:26,680 How do we support them better? 100 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:28,400 How do we support our academic staff 101 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,120 to work with our students better? 102 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:31,360 So they were the kinds of things 103 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,400 that motivated us to work in this project as well. 104 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,480 LAUREN: - And what sort of things were you observing 105 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,200 before the OER in those student groups? 106 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,520 SIVA: - There was a lot of challenges that students face 107 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,200 around how to communicate with their teachers, 108 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,040 how to communicate with their peers, 109 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,480 how to request information, 110 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,560 how to request an extension if they need additional time. 111 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,720 'Cause when you think about neurodivergent students, 112 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,520 their brains are wired slightly differently. 113 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,000 Now I am very happy to disclose I'm dyslexic. 114 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,160 And my brain works slightly differently. 115 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,120 And I know that because of the first-hand experience 116 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,520 that I had to learn to overcome dyslexia 117 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,640 and to be able to read, to be able to write, 118 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,280 and to be able to speak clearly. 119 00:05:21,280 --> 00:05:24,520 So they are the aspects of work that you would expect 120 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,000 someone, especially as an engineer, 121 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:27,240 to be able to be good at. 122 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,480 And so we were noticing that students were challenged 123 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,760 by communication skills, 124 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,800 by being able to work in team environments. 125 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,720 That was one, but equally we were seeing that our academic staff 126 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,880 didn't know how to work with our students who were struggling, 127 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:43,280 how to support them. 128 00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:45,880 To even identify the students that were struggling was hard, 129 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,640 'cause it's easy to actually label somebody as lazy 130 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,320 and not engaging without knowing fully why they're not engaging. 131 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,840 There were the challenges that mainly motivated us 132 00:05:54,840 --> 00:05:57,240 to think about how do we do this differently? 133 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:58,800 How do we do this better? 134 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,200 How can we support our students and our staff? 135 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,600 LAUREN - And what did you initially envisage 136 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,320 when you set out on this journey to address those challenges? 137 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:08,840 SIVA - It involved us first searching. 138 00:06:08,840 --> 00:06:11,080 Before we jumped into this OER project, 139 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,360 there was a lot of searching, researching that myself, 140 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,960 my colleagues and my co-authors, one of the co-authors, 141 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,400 there's two co-authors to this OER, 142 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,280 one of the co-authors did. 143 00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:26,880 To identify what resources may be useful, 144 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,000 ADCET resources are fantastic, to be honest. 145 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,680 There's lots of information, supporting material, 146 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,080 material for designing, learning for students 147 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,960 with disability, learning difficulties, 148 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,280 neurodivergent students, how to work with them, 149 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:44,880 how to help them receive information, 150 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:49,080 how to support them when they have particular needs, 151 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:54,080 how to help them identify and explain what those needs are. 152 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,880 So there are heaps of information out there, 153 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,240 but there wasn't one specific to students, 154 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,600 particularly in staff specific to a STEM-based discipline, 155 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,280 so engineering required a lot of project interaction, 156 00:07:05,280 --> 00:07:08,120 and we couldn't find anything that was very specific 157 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:09,760 to how do we actually communicate, 158 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,520 how do we get them to work in teams. 159 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,720 So that was what sort of helped us to understand. 160 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:17,680 The need a little bit better, I suppose, 161 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,840 having said that we've worked on this resource, 162 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,640 I should say, we have drawn from many of the existing resources, 163 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,600 we didn't create something new. 164 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,480 LAUREN - And what was the motivation behind an OER? 165 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,560 Like, why did you choose an openly available textbook? 166 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,920 SIVA - I guess it is in line with our thinking 167 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,600 about the fact that education should be accessible 168 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,480 and available for anyone, 169 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,560 and there should be no barriers for people, 170 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,120 including financial barriers for people to benefit 171 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:49,680 from such a resource, 172 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,680 which was the motivation for an open education resource. 173 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,000 LAUREN - Yes, you're speaking my language, Siva. 174 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,520 I love this. I love the idea of changing the world 175 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:04,720 by reducing barriers for participation in education. 176 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:09,280 And so tell us a little bit about the OER that you created. 177 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:15,200 SIVA - OK, so as you said, the OER is an open education resource, 178 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:16,800 and it is an online resource. 179 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,600 It is freely available to anyone and everyone. 180 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,560 Our particular resource, which is Communication 181 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,440 and Teamwork Skills for Neurodivergent Students, 182 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,400 is a resource that steps students through communication 183 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,680 differences, strategies for effective communication, 184 00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:37,160 as well as how to approach group work or teamwork 185 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,360 in an easy to digest manner. 186 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,240 So the chapters are written in such a way 187 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,480 that it's easy and interactive for neurodivergent students. 188 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,240 It's developed with them in mind, 189 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,200 as opposed to actually developing a resource 190 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,560 that is more academically robust, or like a journal article, 191 00:08:55,560 --> 00:08:57,360 you're not arguing a point. 192 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,920 You're actually making it easy for students to digest, 193 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:02,960 for staff to digest how to work with each other, 194 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,400 how to support students with disability 195 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:06,400 learning difficulties. 196 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,400 There are a lot of things that we have covered within that book, 197 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,160 the open education resource, 198 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,200 but it is done in such a way that it's much easy to digest. 199 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,680 LAUREN - And you've been really careful to make sure 200 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:19,560 that the resource meets a really high standard 201 00:09:19,560 --> 00:09:22,440 for accessibility throughout the text, right? 202 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:23,760 SIVA - We have, absolutely. 203 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,440 And a lot of the help was actually from Dr. Bec Muir 204 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,080 and I should really acknowledge her contributions. 205 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,640 It's very appropriate to say that she has been 206 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,840 a guiding light from the beginning. 207 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,960 So the work that she did in developing some early resources 208 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:47,280 helped us understand beyond neurodivergent students, 209 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,440 understanding learning difficulties, 210 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,720 understanding disability better. 211 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,960 And this resource was drawing from her initial work, 212 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,160 as well as other work from ADCET and so on. 213 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,280 LAUREN - One thing that I noticed, even just from the very beginning 214 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,320 of the book, when you open up the first pages, 215 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:11,800 it makes it really clear to the reader how to use this book. 216 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,400 And I really appreciate that because sometimes 217 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,920 you can open textbooks and immediately there's a barrier 218 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,960 put up perhaps by the way that the book is organized 219 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,520 or the density of the language. 220 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,280 And I think that it's really evident when you look at the book, 221 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,520 how hard you've worked to reduce those barriers. 222 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:32,680 SIVA - Indeed. 223 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:35,760 It was something that we had kept in the back of our minds 224 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,120 throughout. 225 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,680 I think what was even more helpful 226 00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:42,040 was to have a student partner work with us. 227 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,360 So we could actually see it from the lens of a student 228 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,760 and understand how a student would want 229 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,960 to use such a resource. 230 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,960 And so, as I said before, how we actually 231 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:55,840 used and moved from other resources. 232 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,160 We also wanted to draw from the student partner 233 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:04,040 to actually learn and understand how a student, particularly 234 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,400 with learning difficulty or a neurodivergent student 235 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:08,960 might use this resource. 236 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:10,760 And that was the whole idea. 237 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:12,120 We wanted to be accessible. 238 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,400 We wanted to be useful for somebody. 239 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,960 LAUREN - If I understand correctly, the resource 240 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,160 is now being used across the entire bachelor 241 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:21,160 of engineering. 242 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:22,240 Is that right? 243 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:23,360 SIVA - And postgraduate, too. 244 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,760 So we do have a lot of international students 245 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,280 who come to us into our postgraduate programs 246 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,360 that we offer or degrees that we offer 247 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,120 in the School of Engineering. 248 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,280 STEM disciplines, and particularly engineering, 249 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,160 attracts a lot of students that are neurodivergent. 250 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,560 The rate of disclosure is quite low. 251 00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:43,040 But we know that through interactions with students. 252 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,600 And so, it was about how do we actually 253 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,200 make this resource accessible for all students 254 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,520 and staff, irrespective. 255 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,680 So it's not for one cohort alone. 256 00:11:52,680 --> 00:11:55,600 So it's used both within the undergraduate and postgraduate 257 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:56,720 programs. 258 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:58,000 We give it to the students. 259 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,960 It was also used to develop a training module 260 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,280 for peer mentors to build their understanding 261 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,120 of how to support students who are neurodivergent. 262 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:10,720 And the neurodivergent piece. 263 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,080 And so it's being translated into staff resource, 264 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,800 staff training module, as well as a student resource 265 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,280 that's available and accessible for everyone 266 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,280 within the School of Engineering. 267 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,400 I should also say that it's actually 268 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,480 being referred to students outside of the School of Engineering 269 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,800 within Deakin and even beyond Deakin. 270 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,400 LAUREN - And what you're describing about how you've 271 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,560 made sure that it's accessible, not just 272 00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:38,040 for neurodivergent students who you had in mind when you wrote it, 273 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,000 but for everyone, reminds me a lot of a key 274 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,960 principle from universal design for learning, which 275 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,680 is an important concept in teaching and learning design, 276 00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:49,360 where we say that what's good for the students 277 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,840 who need accommodations actually 278 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,360 ends up being good for everyone. 279 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:55,240 SIVA - Indeed. 280 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,040 And integration never stops, right? 281 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,560 So when you think about how long undergraduate and postgraduate 282 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:04,720 program, we are continuing to integrate that in the unit 283 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,000 level, as well, and so an undergraduate engineering 284 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,760 degrees for years long. 285 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,960 If you introduce it just at the beginning, 286 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:16,080 and if you forget not to integrate it afterwards, 287 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,360 students may also forget that, and our staff may also 288 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:18,880 forget that. 289 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,360 So it's important to actually continue 290 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:26,240 to integrate that across purposefully selected units. 291 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,800 So that students have that resource handy, 292 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,040 and they can use it as and when they need it. 293 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,280 So that that approach is important. 294 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,280 And it is something that we have been carefully 295 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,920 doing to generate discussions within and amongst our staff. 296 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:44,160 So they understand fully how to support students 297 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:45,920 for different tasks, not the same task, 298 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,480 because teamwork skills may be different at different e-levels. 299 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,200 And so how do you actually take someone 300 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,440 through the complexities of working in a team environment, 301 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,840 taking instructions from the unit chairs one thing 302 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,840 in the beginning, but having their own initiative, 303 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,240 and being able to also influence other members of the team, 304 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,320 towards the final year of your learning, 305 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:11,320 means that you push yourself above and beyond just 306 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,080 the participation requirement in a team environment. 307 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:16,600 And how do you do that, especially 308 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,560 when you are a neurodivergent student? 309 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:20,720 You identify yourself as a neurodivergent student. 310 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:25,040 So that's something that we've been thinking about carefully 311 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,280 to integrate it across the whole program. 312 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,400 LAUREN - And what sort of stories are you hearing 313 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,200 from your bachelor of engineering and your postgraduate 314 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,280 students about this OER in practice? 315 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,720 What impact is it having? 316 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,600 SIVA - Look, that's a slightly tricky question, 317 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,680 because we don't directly go and ask students, 318 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:43,960 do you find this useful? 319 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,200 And it's not meant to be that way, right? 320 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,520 So it's not meant to be an inclusive resource. 321 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,840 It's there for students to use it. 322 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,040 Sometimes students use it without telling anybody 323 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:55,360 they're using it. 324 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,600 And it is supposed to be that way, because a lot of the times, 325 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,640 people don't want to disclose their learning difficulty 326 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,680 or disability, and it is understood 327 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,760 because of the stigma that comes along with it. 328 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,320 So we don't intrusively ask students how they use it, 329 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,840 but anecdotally, we've received feedback from students 330 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,320 who have used it, that found it really useful. 331 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,320 Our staff also have seen a positive change 332 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:21,840 within their classroom, particularly 333 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,280 when students want time out, and they don't want to be 334 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:28,880 part of learning activity, because it is too much for them. 335 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,920 They know that they can use fidget tools. 336 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,720 They can find a calm space to go and sit down. 337 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,600 And it shows that they have used source resources, 338 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,680 and they have started to understand the information 339 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,000 presented within that resource to learn 340 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,800 how to manage the situation themselves. 341 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,320 It is also very possible that they are getting support 342 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,720 externally, not just within this resource, right? 343 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,800 So I think it's about how do we actually-- 344 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:55,600 what's the word I'm looking for here? 345 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,240 How do we work hand in hand with other resources 346 00:15:58,240 --> 00:15:59,080 that are available? 347 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,320 It's not supposed to be a single source of information, 348 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,400 but it is in addition to other support mechanisms 349 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,680 that are available for students. 350 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,600 LAUREN - Which is a very inclusive approach in and of itself, 351 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,040 because what you're saying is there's no one size fits all. 352 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,960 A resource that might be really useful for one student 353 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:22,520 may not meet the needs of another, and that's really OK. 354 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:23,320 SIVA - Absolutely. 355 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:24,320 Absolutely. 356 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,520 LAUREN - So you hear anecdotally from students 357 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,400 who are happy to share, and from your instructors, 358 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,040 your teachers, that it's helpful. 359 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,840 But I understand-- and you mentioned before-- 360 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,560 that you actually had a student work with you 361 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,280 to create the resource. 362 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,560 Can you tell us more about that? 363 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,000 SIVA - When we initially set out to work on this resource, 364 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,000 we were looking for a student who is neurodivergent, 365 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,520 or identifies themselves as neurodivergent, 366 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,360 so that we can learn from them. 367 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,080 And they will also have a ball working with us in this project. 368 00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:59,480 That was the whole idea. 369 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,240 And we did get a student partner who was doing an undergraduate 370 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,440 degree at Deakin, who has been fantastic throughout the project. 371 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:10,080 She came in, started giving us insights 372 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,520 into the student world, but also insights 373 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,640 into different types of neurodivergence, 374 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,000 so understanding that it's not, as you said, 375 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,520 it's not one size fits all. 376 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,960 And you can't develop a resource that addresses every problem. 377 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,800 But how do you actually take an approach 378 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,880 that can sort of build the confidence of students, 379 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,080 can build the confidence of staff dealing with students? 380 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:38,480 And so that was really helpful. 381 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,200 So the impact she had on us was profound. 382 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,440 And the impact I suppose the project 383 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,120 had on her, building her confidence 384 00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:49,040 to be able to go out into the real world 385 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,480 and talk about the work that she's been doing, 386 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,000 and promote the projects, and sort of draw a sense 387 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,000 of satisfaction from it. 388 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,280 We could see how that student partner had blossomed 389 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,000 over the time of her engagement in the project 390 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,000 from being an introvert to being somewhat of an extrovert, 391 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,560 being happy to go out there and be the cheerleader 392 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,920 for the resource itself. 393 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:14,880 It's fantastic. 394 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,280 It's a fantastic, huge transformation experience. 395 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,720 LAUREN - For your teachers in the program, 396 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:27,120 have you observed any impact that the resource has had on them? 397 00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:27,960 SIVA - Absolutely. 398 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,720 So it's been a really positive experience 399 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,160 that we've heard from a few of our academic staff, 400 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,880 initially, who didn't know how to deal with some of the challenges 401 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,520 that students faced when they worked in team environments. 402 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,680 We don't particularly provide specific training 403 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,040 on how to work in a team, how to communicate 404 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,680 with their peers, how to communicate with clients, 405 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,960 how to communicate with different stakeholders in a project 406 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,160 given that our curriculum is so heavily project-focused. 407 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:02,720 I think with this resource, the students that we're struggling 408 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,840 definitely have been able to use the resource 409 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,560 to help themselves, but also help other people. 410 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,120 And that's something that our academic staff 411 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:14,720 have started to notice. 412 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,560 And so all they needed to do is to point to students 413 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,320 that this resource is available as in when they need them. 414 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,400 We do that, as I said, in different intervals. 415 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,360 It's a selected, specifically selected units 416 00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:30,680 at the beginning of the program, sometimes in the middle 417 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,400 of the program, and so on. 418 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,800 And so that's been helpful from their perspective, 419 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,040 because at least they now have confidence 420 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,480 in saying to students, look, if you're struggling, 421 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:41,960 we know that you are. 422 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,120 You can go and have a look at this resource. 423 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:46,640 Come and ask questions if you have questions. 424 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,080 If you don't want to, that's also fine. 425 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,000 LAUREN - I can imagine, from the perspective of a teacher, 426 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,640 and I've done a bit of teaching myself, just how much peace 427 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:01,280 of mind it would give me to know that it wasn't just me 428 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,280 having to answer all the questions and support 429 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,160 the students through all the challenges 430 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,520 that they might face in their group work. 431 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,080 Like, obviously, they're going to be there for that anyway. 432 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,320 And there's going to be challenges 433 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,920 that this resource won't address, but just to know 434 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,920 that there's something that's been tried and tested 435 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,000 would be a huge relief for me and give me 436 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,360 a lot of confidence as a teacher. 437 00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:22,960 SIVA - Absolutely. 438 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,480 And you don't sometimes have answers for everything, right? 439 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,960 So that's-- and you're not expected to have answers for everything. 440 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,120 And so some of us, if you don't have engineers like me, 441 00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:36,720 and we're trained to be very-- 442 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,000 to be very much technically oriented. 443 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,840 Soft skills are often the hard skills for most engineers. 444 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,320 Even though that's something that they have to develop 445 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,080 to be able to practice in the real world. 446 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,160 And those hard skills-- I'm not going to refer 447 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,600 to them as soft skills-- those hard skills. 448 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,080 It's hard for everyone, including academic staff. 449 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,640 And so you might find this interesting to know, 450 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,400 but it is not easy for us to actually work with students 451 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,200 to identify how to support them. 452 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,880 And so the responses I've had from some of the staff 453 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,320 that have used these resources is that they 454 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,280 don't have to find the answers themselves. 455 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,280 They can now have a resource to point to students to. 456 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,200 And do you find it's raising the awareness 457 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:24,000 of your academic staff about neurodivergence in general? 458 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,560 Oh, it assumes so, because if you ask me, 459 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,400 did I actually know everything about neurodivergence, 460 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,200 learning difficulties or learning disabilities? 461 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:33,960 I didn't. 462 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:35,880 Most of us have tunnel vision, and we only 463 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,280 know as much as we are exposed to, right? 464 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,400 So the information we have access to and we 465 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:46,040 have tried to access is what limits our knowledge 466 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,120 and experience is limited by that information. 467 00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:49,960 Having exposure to more is only 468 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,120 I'm assuming going to positively impact them. 469 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:55,360 LAUREN - And if we look beyond Deakin, is this 470 00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:59,520 or we are having any impact, as far as you know? 471 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:00,160 SIVA - I suppose so. 472 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,520 So we've had significant visits since the OER has been released. 473 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,000 There's been more than 7,000 visits 474 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:15,200 on the OER resource and about 150 downloads. 475 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,520 So that's significant for a resource that's only 476 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,640 being out there for a very short time period. 477 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,280 What I would really like to know is if people are using it, 478 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,400 and if they're listening to this podcast, please email me. 479 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,560 Tell me that they found this useful, 480 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,560 or they found this not so useful in particular ways 481 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,240 to really be happy to take their feedback and improve 482 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:38,240 response. 483 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,680 The resource itself has been picked up by ADCET, 484 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,040 by UNSW, UTAS, you know, University of Tasmania. 485 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,120 So there've been referring students and staff 486 00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:49,840 to this resource, which I know of. 487 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:54,200 So through library partners, through conversations 488 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,320 that I’ve had with people in different places. 489 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,600 Engineers Australia picked up on the resource 490 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,520 and asked if I would come and do a presentation. 491 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,960 at a diversity conference last year, which we did. 492 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,600 And so it's also come to the attention of industry 493 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:16,400 practitioners, employer groups, not just the academic 494 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,280 and student cohort. 495 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,840 But industry is also starting to look at what we're doing 496 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,920 and how they may actually change their practice 497 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,880 to support graduates that are entering the field. 498 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,920 How do we support neurodivergent graduates 499 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,880 in something that they started talking about in that conference 500 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,920 which was interesting. 501 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:38,720 LAUREN - And what's amazing is because it is an openly licensed resource, 502 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,720 someone could take your OER and they could remix it 503 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,320 for a different application. 504 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,200 Right now it's for neurodivergent students 505 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,480 in team and group work settings for undergraduate 506 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:50,480 and graduate students. 507 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,480 It could be for graduates in the industry. 508 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:54,800 Absolutely, yeah. 509 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,360 I think it's an open resource. 510 00:23:57,360 --> 00:23:59,200 So it's there for people to adapt it 511 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,920 as in how they would like to use it. 512 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:03,320 That's the whole idea, right? 513 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,280 So what's the point in limiting people's access to the resource? 514 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,840 If they can use it and if they can adapt it to their context, 515 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,640 they're more than welcome to do that. 516 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,040 And as I said before, they've got valuable feedback for us. 517 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:16,640 Absolutely. 518 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,640 Happy to take it as well. 519 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,600 LAUREN - Have you heard any specific stories from any of those colleagues 520 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,640 that I think you said it's Headspace, 521 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,400 UNSW, Southern Cross, UTAS, University of Canberra? 522 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,600 I know that you're getting referrals from all of them. 523 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,600 Any specific stories coming from any of those places? 524 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,760 Not particularly, but the interactions 525 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:40,280 I’ve had with the equivalent of disability resource 526 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,600 center at Deakin, at UNSW and UTAS 527 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,200 has been really positive. 528 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,280 So they're like, you know, why didn't we do this ourselves? 529 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,720 Why didn't we create a resource such as this? 530 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,280 So that was appreciative. 531 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,240 Like, you know, I felt, oh, good. 532 00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:00,080 It is, in fact, for this useful to hear that feedback, 533 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,880 to be able to say, look, thank you for doing this. 534 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,000 We would really like to use these resource 535 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,680 within a peer mentoring group within our disability resource 536 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,240 center to train us to be able to work with our students. 537 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,440 That's a positive sign that this is a useful resource. 538 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:17,280 LAUREN - All right. 539 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,320 We're going to go a little bit, a little meta now. 540 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:21,160 SIVA - Mm-hmm. 541 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:21,680 OK. 542 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,800 LAUREN - So as you know, this is both a podcast episode 543 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,640 and its research data. 544 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,080 And this is research data that we're 545 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,400 going to have to analyse and come to some conclusions. 546 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:32,640 You've been there. 547 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,440 You are sort of the witness to all of this. 548 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,360 What do you think it all means? 549 00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:41,400 What can we learn from your stories about the impact 550 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,640 that OER have on teaching and learning? 551 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,800 SIVA - Look, I would encourage anyone 552 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,080 and everyone to actually do it. 553 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,520 If I think there is something that they should do 554 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,280 to make a difference, use the OER channel 555 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,240 as an opportunity to do that. 556 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,880 At the start, I didn't know that such an opportunity existed, 557 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,960 because why would I have waited 10 years to do that? 558 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,040 I suppose, understanding the problem, understanding what 559 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,320 can be done, what resources they just need to support. 560 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:12,880 It took us a while to get there. 561 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,640 But when we got there, the information 562 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,440 and the support that we got from the library team 563 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:19,400 was fantastic. 564 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,560 The Open Education Resource Team. 565 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,840 They were really clear with the expectations they set for us. 566 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,280 They were really clear with the approach 567 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,560 they suggested that they could take. 568 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,840 They didn't actually make us do one thing or the other, 569 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,480 but here are the different options. 570 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,360 And there are the pros and cons associated with it. 571 00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:44,600 We got a lot of support in terms of having training sessions, 572 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,040 as well as working with people who 573 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,960 have participated in OER products prior 574 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,200 came together in communities of practice sessions, 575 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,120 which we participated in, and shared their experience. 576 00:26:56,120 --> 00:26:59,000 And so here I am, sharing my experience. 577 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,760 It's absolutely a platform to actually 578 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,320 have an alternative publication. 579 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,280 So I know a lot of the academic staff think 580 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,680 about general publications, conference publications, 581 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,080 as it means to have an impact. 582 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,040 It will have an impact, certainly, 583 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,320 but this is another way of having impact. 584 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,400 This is another way of impacting student learning, 585 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,440 another way of impacting staff experience and student experience. 586 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,480 And I think one that I'm absolutely proud of. 587 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,960 So there is nothing that I would have done differently 588 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,840 to producing in OER resource, particularly in this area. 589 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,760 The other thing I would like to add 590 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,440 is the support that we received in terms of checking 591 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,840 the intellectual property, compliance, and issues, 592 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,440 which I had absolutely no idea of. 593 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,080 And we don't think about these kinds of things 594 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:44,480 when you write a general article. 595 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,320 Because often it's done by a publishing company 596 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,840 and they ensure that it is original work and whatnot. 597 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,680 But when you're drawing from so many other people's work 598 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,200 and creating an open resource, what can you do? 599 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,800 And what are the limits and boundaries 600 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,520 of how much you can share? 601 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:03,920 Who knows? I didn't. 602 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,880 And it was really important to sort of take that support 603 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:09,880 and go through the learning process. 604 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,440 And I think we're only better off for doing that. 605 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,880 And I've talked with my other academic partner 606 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:19,480 in this resource. 607 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:24,320 And we both know how long we have come through this experience, 608 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,440 the long way that we have travelled, 609 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,360 both in our learning, both of us, this is. 610 00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:31,960 I think my suggestion is do it. 611 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,480 If you think you can have an impact on student learning, 612 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,360 by all means extend this, because this is only the beginning. 613 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:39,200 It's not the end. 614 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,240 If there are other areas that we can support neurodivergence 615 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,800 in students with, I would encourage you to do that. 616 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:46,840 LAUREN - What a wonderful answer. 617 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,040 Thank you, Siva. 618 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:49,640 Now, my last question. 619 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,040 Do you have a favorite part of the OER? 620 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,680 SIVA - My favorite part is the team work part, 621 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,760 because I enjoy working in a team environment. 622 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,120 And I do a lot of satisfaction 623 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,480 from being part of a team, learning with, 624 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,320 learning from, learning about each other. 625 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,120 That is what motivates me to come to work, 626 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,120 to do things that I do. 627 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:14,960 I suppose that's my favorite part in the book. 628 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,280 If we can support our students to work in a team environment, 629 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,840 easily to navigate the dynamics of a team environment 630 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,400 and to be able to understand and support each other 631 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,040 and learn from their peers and learn with their peers, 632 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,160 learn about their peers, fantastic. 633 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,120 I think that's my best part. 634 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:32,680 LAUREN - Wonderful. 635 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,320 Well, Siva, thank you so much for spending this time 636 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,800 with me today and for sharing your stories. 637 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,280 I appreciate it so much. 638 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:41,440 I love this. 639 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,120 It really fills my cup. 640 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,880 I think in the same way that working as a team fills yours. 641 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:47,600 SIVA - Thank you, Lauren. 642 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,240 Thanks indeed for having me. 643 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,720 LAUREN - Stories of Openness is a limited series 644 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,200 from the Open Education team at Deakin University Library. 645 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,840 It's part of a research by podcast project, 646 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,640 led by me, Lauren Halcomb-Smith, 647 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,120 with Angie Williamson, Danni Johnson, and Eddie Pavuna. 648 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,040 We choose Open wherever possible, 649 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,080 including Audacity for Editing, Castopod for hosting, 650 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,520 and Music by Scott Holmes Music. 651 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,600 This podcast by Deakin University 652 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,760 is licensed under a CC-BY-NC License. 653 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,240 For more information and full acknowledgments, 654 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,040 please see our show notes. 655 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,400 [MUSIC PLAYING] 656 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,888 [BLANK_AUDIO]