1 00:00:06,899 --> 00:00:13,859 LAUREN: Hello and welcome listeners. You are listening to Stories of openness, a limited series podcast 2 00:00:13,859 --> 00:00:20,419 created by the Open Education team at Deakin University Library. My name is Lauren Halcomb-Smith, 3 00:00:20,419 --> 00:00:25,779 and I'm your host. I'm a lecturer of Open Education at Deakin, and I'm on a mission to explore 4 00:00:25,779 --> 00:00:33,059 the impact that open educational resources, or OER, are having on learning and teaching at Deakin. 5 00:00:33,859 --> 00:00:40,259 OER are free textbooks and other learning materials that anyone can use, adapt, and share, 6 00:00:40,259 --> 00:00:46,099 which is unlike traditional textbooks that can be locked or inaccessible behind high costs and 7 00:00:46,099 --> 00:00:51,459 copyright restrictions. In this series, I'm talking with Deakin academics about their experiences 8 00:00:51,459 --> 00:00:58,339 of creating and using open resources, and this podcast is part of a research project that uses 9 00:00:58,339 --> 00:01:05,219 podcasting as a research methodology. So this conversation is both an episode of our podcast and 10 00:01:05,219 --> 00:01:10,739 open research data. I'm coming to you today from the beautiful traditional and unceded lands of 11 00:01:10,739 --> 00:01:16,259 the Wiradjuri people. I gratefully acknowledge them as the traditional custodians of these lands, 12 00:01:16,259 --> 00:01:21,779 seas, and skies, and recognize that this has been a place of learning, teaching, and rich 13 00:01:21,779 --> 00:01:29,299 conversation for millennia. Today, we are joined by Dr. Trish Corbett, who's an academic director 14 00:01:29,299 --> 00:01:35,219 of teaching for the Bachelor of Marine Science in the School of Life and Environmental Science at Deakin, 15 00:01:35,219 --> 00:01:42,819 and in addition to a very impressive resume, Trish is the author of a very cool OER called Sustainable 16 00:01:42,819 --> 00:01:50,099 Marine Futures. The book is interactive, open access, and explores how ocean science, sustainability, 17 00:01:50,099 --> 00:01:56,499 policy, and community intersect to address key marine challenges from climate change to food security. 18 00:01:56,499 --> 00:02:00,819 Welcome, Trish. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. 19 00:02:00,819 --> 00:02:06,419 All right, Trish. So before we jump into questions that I have actually written down, 20 00:02:06,419 --> 00:02:09,859 I need you to tell me about the penguins on the cover of the book. 21 00:02:09,859 --> 00:02:17,859 TRISH: Yes, sorry, very good story. So they're Adélie penguins, and I was very fortunate for my PhD to be 22 00:02:17,859 --> 00:02:24,419 studying in Antarctica, looking at human impacts, and along the way, I saw a lot of these gorgeous penguins 23 00:02:24,419 --> 00:02:29,379 and thought that is the perfect cover for these texts. LAUREN: And so you took the picture. That's on the 24 00:02:29,379 --> 00:02:35,459 cover. TRISH: Yes, so lucky. They actually, from a distance, they started running across to us, and we 25 00:02:35,459 --> 00:02:41,219 just lay down on the ground and took photos. They're just beautiful. LAUREN: That is amazing. You were in 26 00:02:41,219 --> 00:02:48,339 Antarctica doing your PhD research. How did you get from there to creating an OER? 27 00:02:48,339 --> 00:02:55,059 TRISH: Yes, so after my PhD, and actually during I did bits and pieces of teaching, and after a while, 28 00:02:55,059 --> 00:03:01,139 I figured out teaching is another huge passion of mine. So researching human impacts, but then also 29 00:03:01,139 --> 00:03:08,819 looking at higher education, how can we have innovative teaching practice and get the best 30 00:03:08,819 --> 00:03:14,499 learning from our students. So when I heard about OERs, and particularly the fact that you can have 31 00:03:14,499 --> 00:03:21,059 these online open textbooks that have interactive activities, videos, all sorts of things I thought 32 00:03:21,059 --> 00:03:29,139 this is for my students. LAUREN: So what was the need that your OER, the specific one that you have created, 33 00:03:29,139 --> 00:03:33,699 Sustainable Marine Futures? What was the need that it was filling when you set out to make it? 34 00:03:33,699 --> 00:03:42,579 TRISH: So there is no textbook like it, particularly in Australian focus. We have a number of different 35 00:03:42,579 --> 00:03:50,019 policy type documents, or the UN Sustainable Development Goals, Ocean Decade Goals. So there's 36 00:03:50,019 --> 00:03:56,899 lots of goals, policies, challenges that we are facing. And while there were these documents, 37 00:03:56,899 --> 00:04:02,659 there wasn't a sort of way that I could make this more palatable for students to learn 38 00:04:02,659 --> 00:04:09,699 right from the, well, what's the problem? Through to how can science and marine science help solve 39 00:04:09,699 --> 00:04:16,179 those challenges? And how can that inform management? LAUREN: And who are the students that this resource 40 00:04:16,179 --> 00:04:23,699 was developed for? What sort of level of higher education? Trish:So it's for a second year marine science 41 00:04:23,699 --> 00:04:30,019 students. And so yeah, they're really moving from that first year where they learn their foundational 42 00:04:30,019 --> 00:04:36,419 skills to really starting to put that into practice and really see, you know, how they can then start 43 00:04:36,419 --> 00:04:43,219 to look forward to their future careers. LAUREN: What was the situation with these learners in the second 44 00:04:43,219 --> 00:04:50,099 year unit with course resources before sustainable marine futures was developed? TRISH: This was a brand new 45 00:04:50,099 --> 00:04:57,939 unit. So I saw it as a great opportunity. Yeah, to be able to design this fix, but also to be 46 00:04:57,939 --> 00:05:03,699 able to bring the student's voice into the development of this text. LAUREN: Okay, tell me more about that. 47 00:05:03,699 --> 00:05:08,019 It is something that I want to talk about in a little bit, but you've piqued my interest. Tell me 48 00:05:08,019 --> 00:05:15,219 about the student voice in the development of the OER. TRISH: Yeah, so I was very lucky. So I had the 49 00:05:15,219 --> 00:05:21,699 open education resource grant from Deakin for this text, also a student as partners project where 50 00:05:21,699 --> 00:05:27,299 I was able to employ four students, two who were actually taking the unit and two who were in 51 00:05:27,299 --> 00:05:34,579 the third year. So they would have had that in the past. And we also then had these students working 52 00:05:34,579 --> 00:05:41,299 with the broader student cohort, doing some workshops, trying to get understanding of the types 53 00:05:41,299 --> 00:05:46,979 of learning that support them. So all the way from, you know, sometimes in the textbook, you'll have 54 00:05:46,979 --> 00:05:53,619 the opportunity to read something or listen to a podcast or watch a video. So really listening to 55 00:05:53,619 --> 00:05:59,139 what the students wanted and we were actually changing what happened on a weekly basis. That's one of 56 00:05:59,139 --> 00:06:06,899 the incredible things about open education resources is you can change them yearly, weekly, whenever 57 00:06:06,899 --> 00:06:11,859 you like, so you can really tailor it to the particular cohort and the learners that you have. 58 00:06:11,859 --> 00:06:17,779 LAUREN: If I'm understanding correctly, you are developing content with your four students who were also 59 00:06:17,779 --> 00:06:22,819 working with the students in the learning unit itself and you were sort of releasing content 60 00:06:22,819 --> 00:06:29,779 through the OER on a rolling basis. TRISH: Yeah, so we actually had, I forgot there was another student partner 61 00:06:29,779 --> 00:06:37,059 project as well called Coffee Conversations, which I ran for that unit where students each week we 62 00:06:37,059 --> 00:06:43,299 had anywhere from two to six students came along, had a coffee and they just gave us feedback. So it could 63 00:06:43,299 --> 00:06:49,859 be in relation to the text which was actually piloted on that unit site or it could be something 64 00:06:49,859 --> 00:06:55,219 completely different. But we just got, you know, students talking about how, you know, had one 65 00:06:55,219 --> 00:07:00,579 student who was quite reluctant to come along and eventually came along and they said, oh, just 66 00:07:00,579 --> 00:07:06,739 different colours or different sized fonts and things, things that they can click are really helpful. 67 00:07:06,739 --> 00:07:12,179 So the next week we bought in colour, we bought in different fonts and so it's really working with 68 00:07:12,179 --> 00:07:17,539 people who work in different ways to learn to be able to get the best out of, you know, we want 69 00:07:17,539 --> 00:07:21,779 students to have that deep learning where they're really going to remember it rather than just 70 00:07:21,779 --> 00:07:29,859 remember it for that period of time. LAUREN: People talk a lot about quality and OER and what occurs to me 71 00:07:29,859 --> 00:07:38,019 when I'm listening to you is that is how much user feedback and dare I say peer review was involved 72 00:07:38,019 --> 00:07:44,419 in the development of this content perhaps even more than you would expect in a traditional textbook. 73 00:07:44,419 --> 00:07:50,099 TRISH: Yeah, in a completely different way and I think we want to know how students are going to learn 74 00:07:50,099 --> 00:07:56,979 better. Why are we not asking them more? So it was a really rich experience in so many ways and 75 00:07:56,979 --> 00:08:02,739 this was a cohort of students that I'd taught for a year previous. So I thought that they were going 76 00:08:02,739 --> 00:08:08,659 to be really willing to give me feedback and I learnt very quickly that I needed to build the 77 00:08:08,659 --> 00:08:14,659 relationship with them and create that safe space and that sense of belonging before they gave me that 78 00:08:14,659 --> 00:08:20,899 feedback but once they did it was beautiful. I would share the changes that I had made and what I'd 79 00:08:20,899 --> 00:08:25,859 heard from them and you could see the students like they're whispering to each other in class oh that 80 00:08:25,859 --> 00:08:33,059 was my idea and it's just such a beautiful thing. I even saw things like better discussion in classes 81 00:08:33,059 --> 00:08:38,019 because the students felt more comfortable with me and each other from those conversations and 82 00:08:38,019 --> 00:08:44,099 that they'd really you know how to say in their learning. LAUREN: Let's take it back just a few steps. 83 00:08:44,099 --> 00:08:50,419 You've told us about the mechanism through which the OER was created with a lot of student involvement, 84 00:08:50,419 --> 00:08:59,459 student input, peer review. Tell us about that the OER itself. TRISH: Yeah sorry it follows it's essentially 85 00:08:59,459 --> 00:09:05,299 when it was created each chapter is a week of the trimester for the unit that we're using it for but 86 00:09:05,299 --> 00:09:10,179 it can be used for all kinds of different things. Anyone can pick that up you know from high school 87 00:09:10,179 --> 00:09:16,899 through to tertiary education or just for fun and it follows these different challenges so things 88 00:09:16,899 --> 00:09:24,499 like climate change, food security you know how we're going to deal with sea level rise or all sorts 89 00:09:24,499 --> 00:09:31,059 of different challenges that we're facing even maintaining maritime sovereignty, safety and security. 90 00:09:31,059 --> 00:09:37,299 So these big things that we're facing globally and it walks through you know what that challenge 91 00:09:37,299 --> 00:09:43,219 is but then how are we going to actually work towards solving this? What can we do as individuals 92 00:09:43,219 --> 00:09:50,499 and as marine scientists to help solve these challenges? LAUREN: And is it localized to the Australian context? 93 00:09:50,499 --> 00:09:56,259 TRISH: Predominantly. So we definitely have examples from elsewhere but we have focused more on an 94 00:09:56,259 --> 00:10:02,899 Australian perspective. LAUREN: That's a challenge that we see in course resource provision outside of 95 00:10:02,899 --> 00:10:10,979 open resources is finding locally contextualized content for the Australian tertiary sector. Is that 96 00:10:10,979 --> 00:10:19,459 something that you see in marine science? TRISH: Definitely and again it's more it's policy and strategies 97 00:10:19,459 --> 00:10:25,939 things like that rather than actual texts. There's not a text that you could find on this sort of thing 98 00:10:25,939 --> 00:10:32,659 in the Australian context. LAUREN: And I can imagine for second year students who are what there some of them 99 00:10:32,659 --> 00:10:40,099 could be 19 and then up to you know a range of ages. I can imagine that digesting policy 100 00:10:40,099 --> 00:10:48,659 documents is quite a big ask at that level. TRISH: Yeah definitely and this is more of a ease them into it 101 00:10:48,659 --> 00:10:55,139 taster where they in third year they'll move into another unit where they'll look more in depth 102 00:10:55,139 --> 00:11:00,739 but this is just getting them aware of things like the National Marine Science Plan which is 103 00:11:00,739 --> 00:11:06,339 a really important document for marine scientists in Australia the United Nations sustainable 104 00:11:06,339 --> 00:11:12,659 development goals and the Ocean Decade Goals. So I actually in developing the unit I looked at 105 00:11:12,659 --> 00:11:19,699 all of these different policy strategies plans and I pulled out the 10-11 most important challenges 106 00:11:19,699 --> 00:11:25,219 that were coming up across all of those and then yeah brought it into the Australian focus. 107 00:11:25,219 --> 00:11:33,939 LAUREN: Love this I'm smiling so much. Let's talk about the impact that the OER has had on learning. 108 00:11:33,939 --> 00:11:39,859 So can you think of any stories that illustrate the impact that sustainable marine futures is having 109 00:11:39,859 --> 00:11:45,219 on learning in the classroom. TRISH: I think the fact that I mean the biggest thing when I was thinking 110 00:11:45,219 --> 00:11:52,019 about this textbook is I wanted students to actually want to engage with the online component 111 00:11:52,019 --> 00:11:59,299 of learning and so I think you know hearing students say oh you know I've just put on a podcast 112 00:11:59,299 --> 00:12:05,539 and gone for a walk or you know I've chosen to watch a video for that and I put it on while I'm 113 00:12:05,539 --> 00:12:10,659 doing it making dinner or something like that and I think the students were saying you know this is 114 00:12:10,659 --> 00:12:15,859 something I look forward to like I save these up to be able to do this and I think just giving 115 00:12:15,859 --> 00:12:22,099 those options for people to be able to learn in a way that supports them has been really valuable. 116 00:12:22,099 --> 00:12:28,739 LAUREN: Do you find that there is a marked difference between the experience that your students are having 117 00:12:28,739 --> 00:12:35,059 now compared to similar cohorts that you've taught in the past. TRISH: Yeah well certainly um I think that 118 00:12:35,059 --> 00:12:41,299 there's more engagement with this sort of resource because if you've just got a textbook where students 119 00:12:41,299 --> 00:12:46,579 are just reading it's a very different experience to where you've got lots of interactivity right 120 00:12:46,579 --> 00:12:53,859 from flipping cards to be able to read more through to you know practice quizzes or crosswords or 121 00:12:53,859 --> 00:12:59,779 things that students can do for fun. I think that's really made students want to engage more. LAUREN: And what 122 00:12:59,779 --> 00:13:07,219 was the experience in your observation in terms of the impact on learning for those students who 123 00:13:07,219 --> 00:13:15,619 contributed to the resource. TRISH: It was such a special cohort I think that we had students going to 124 00:13:15,619 --> 00:13:22,019 different you know open education showcases, students as partners showcases, choosing to go and share 125 00:13:22,019 --> 00:13:28,579 their experience because I think nearly every student told me they just felt like they were being 126 00:13:28,579 --> 00:13:34,899 heard it was so important to them to have someone actually care even though sometimes I couldn't 127 00:13:34,899 --> 00:13:40,819 deliver on what they wanted that was a sort of longer term plan but that they could see this is what 128 00:13:40,819 --> 00:13:47,539 I'm hearing from you this is what I'm doing about it and then see their ideas like it was just it 129 00:13:47,539 --> 00:13:55,379 was so beautiful particularly seeing the more quiet students see that they were heard and get really 130 00:13:55,379 --> 00:14:00,499 happy about it that was yeah it was just beautiful just so many you know I joke and say you 131 00:14:00,499 --> 00:14:06,659 know I'm a proud mum like it really feels like that. LAUREN: So those were the students in the unit itself 132 00:14:06,659 --> 00:14:12,179 coming to your coffee conversations and chatting with your employed students. TRISH: Yes. LAUREN: Have you heard 133 00:14:12,179 --> 00:14:17,779 up from those employed students those four students as partners whether it's had any impact on them? 134 00:14:17,779 --> 00:14:24,739 TRISH: Well they're all becoming to the book launch we're having soon but they were very excited because 135 00:14:24,739 --> 00:14:32,019 they're all listed as co-contributors they contributed to all of the H5P activities in the text 136 00:14:32,019 --> 00:14:40,899 and they still, one in particular who's doing some further research with me still talks about 137 00:14:40,899 --> 00:14:49,539 students as partners experience and how fun it was and I think that again it's that really having 138 00:14:49,539 --> 00:14:56,899 your opinion genuinely valued that is what really made students you know get excited about it and 139 00:14:56,899 --> 00:15:02,739 it's something that they'll always remember. LAUREN: I can only imagine the feeling of being an undergraduate 140 00:15:02,739 --> 00:15:08,819 student and being essentially writing a textbook with your instructor that's like a pivotal 141 00:15:08,819 --> 00:15:18,019 moment in your education. TRISH: yeah and I think a lot of people don't see the value in that but it is 142 00:15:18,659 --> 00:15:25,779 such an incredible thing to be able to you know like have the students see you they still know that 143 00:15:25,779 --> 00:15:31,219 you're their lecturer but it's more you're seeing them as an equal and it's a lot of this 144 00:15:31,219 --> 00:15:38,339 building a sense of belonging it's a lot of building bringing in the same values as you know 145 00:15:38,339 --> 00:15:45,539 traditional owners have had for years and years and thousands of years where that reciprocal 146 00:15:45,539 --> 00:15:51,619 learning is so valuable you get so much out of that and I you know I get to learn from my students 147 00:15:51,619 --> 00:15:58,259 I get to share experiences and yeah I think it's just I wouldn't teach in any other way now. 148 00:15:58,259 --> 00:16:06,659 LAUREN: Wow I can just I'm just thinking like anyone who has ever had their talents and potential 149 00:16:06,659 --> 00:16:13,299 noticed by a teacher and had those talents cultivated and had the opportunity to contribute 150 00:16:13,299 --> 00:16:18,339 something will know what a special experience that would have been for your students as partners 151 00:16:18,339 --> 00:16:26,019 and they'll probably never forget you and you sound really really proud of what you have created. 152 00:16:26,019 --> 00:16:31,779 In what way has the experience of creating an OER informed your teaching practice? 153 00:16:31,779 --> 00:16:39,539 TRISH: Yeah and that's a good and big question I think in so many ways I've done other student partner 154 00:16:39,539 --> 00:16:47,299 projects before so I think that I will definitely continue to wherever I can different types of 155 00:16:47,299 --> 00:16:54,659 students as partners projects because that is the most valuable experience that I've had is actually 156 00:16:54,659 --> 00:17:02,419 working with students and asking the students what works for them then I get so much out of that when 157 00:17:02,419 --> 00:17:08,659 I see my students learning and I see them getting something that maybe you know I've tried to 158 00:17:09,219 --> 00:17:13,379 explain or I've given them something to read and I haven't got it but then we've gone down a different 159 00:17:13,379 --> 00:17:20,179 path it's just such a good feeling to say them you know go on and succeed. LAUREN: This really resonates 160 00:17:20,179 --> 00:17:27,859 with me from the perspective of open education is the core values of open education are transparency 161 00:17:27,859 --> 00:17:35,139 open sharing and collaboration and that's just so neatly fits with what you're describing in 162 00:17:35,139 --> 00:17:41,299 bringing your students along both in the unit itself and the students as partners working closely 163 00:17:41,299 --> 00:17:48,099 with you as co-contributors. What other impact has this had whether it's broadly on how you think 164 00:17:48,099 --> 00:17:53,539 about teaching or specifically what did you do differently in the classroom using this resource? 165 00:17:53,539 --> 00:18:03,059 TRISH: So this year will be the first year that the OER has actually been published. Previously we trialled it 166 00:18:03,059 --> 00:18:08,579 on the unit site and sort of developed it through to when we were ready to publish but I think it's 167 00:18:08,579 --> 00:18:14,819 just you know we're going to actually integrate the chapters into the unit site which is something 168 00:18:14,819 --> 00:18:20,339 really cool like I want the students to kind of work through it like it's a workbook and so they 169 00:18:20,339 --> 00:18:24,739 can kind of you know just keep working away and then they can test themselves and go back and oh I 170 00:18:24,739 --> 00:18:32,979 didn't quite get that and keep moving forward but I think yeah it's just really continuing to listen 171 00:18:32,979 --> 00:18:39,539 to students not just I think that's something that I really want once the textbook is out to then 172 00:18:39,539 --> 00:18:45,859 be able to go back and refine continue to talk to students and we can make these changes like this 173 00:18:45,859 --> 00:18:52,179 is something that's so incredible is not only can we update material when climate change things 174 00:18:52,179 --> 00:18:58,739 like that we get up to date information regularly, but we can continue to embed student voice every year 175 00:18:58,739 --> 00:19:05,219 into these texts. LAUREN: So what you're describing is because OER are born digital and they exist 176 00:19:05,219 --> 00:19:12,579 digitally and they have an open license you can update them and make changes on the fly as often 177 00:19:12,579 --> 00:19:18,419 as you need to which is another way that we talk about quality and OER because we can update things 178 00:19:18,419 --> 00:19:24,739 we don't have errors in print like you might see in a traditional textbook. TRISH: Yeah. Absolutely and you 179 00:19:24,739 --> 00:19:30,659 can if there's something topical happens like you know for example obviously it's been happening 180 00:19:30,659 --> 00:19:36,099 for a long time now, but the algal bloom in South Australia. If something like that came up that's a 181 00:19:36,099 --> 00:19:40,899 really good example that we could embed into the textbook where you can do it straight away you don't 182 00:19:40,899 --> 00:19:45,779 need to wait five years for the next version. LAUREN: And make your students buy a whole another 183 00:19:45,779 --> 00:19:52,899 set of textbooks. TRISH: Exactly. LAUREN: so you were describing how what I heard your students had had a lot of 184 00:19:52,899 --> 00:19:59,219 autonomy and choice and you sort of described the resource as almost like a workbook where students 185 00:19:59,219 --> 00:20:03,699 are working through the different stages. This sounds like it does give the students a lot of 186 00:20:03,699 --> 00:20:09,779 independence and a lot of autonomy. Has that freed up time for you to do other things in your 187 00:20:09,779 --> 00:20:16,579 Teaching? TRISH: Absolutely. So it's yeah it's that blended learning flipped classroom style approach where 188 00:20:16,579 --> 00:20:22,499 this is what they're doing at home and then when we come into the classroom I don't lecture at my 189 00:20:22,499 --> 00:20:28,979 Students. It's everything is interactive, it's reciprocal learning it's you know teamwork where we're 190 00:20:28,979 --> 00:20:33,379 got different scenarios and we're coming up with ways of how we're going to solve that and then 191 00:20:33,379 --> 00:20:40,019 we're coming back together as a class and discussing it so it's all very much active learning 192 00:20:40,019 --> 00:20:47,539 where students are solidifying what they've learned in the OER in the classroom. Lauren it does sound like 193 00:20:47,539 --> 00:20:54,339 a lot of work though creating an OER and then you're writing content and you're managing 194 00:20:54,339 --> 00:20:58,819 supervising students and you're asking your students for feedback. What was the the workload 195 00:20:58,819 --> 00:21:07,299 impact on you? TRISH: it was a lot but I did do this well I started developed the new unit with the OER 196 00:21:07,299 --> 00:21:13,939 in mind the whole time. If the unit was already developed I think it would have been a lot more work 197 00:21:13,939 --> 00:21:21,139 as you know it already had to develop the units I had hours for that. But it was a lot of work. It's 198 00:21:21,139 --> 00:21:28,979 taken me three years to actually get the OER up. I did have a grant where I employed a research 199 00:21:28,979 --> 00:21:39,139 Assistant, but even that I think yeah it was still a lot of work and in future I think, if possible, 200 00:21:39,139 --> 00:21:45,779 I would actually you know buy out some marking or something like that because while it's fantastic 201 00:21:45,779 --> 00:21:51,939 to have a research assistant it's difficult if you you know need to look at that particular 202 00:21:51,939 --> 00:21:57,059 challenge you need to do all of the reading to tell them what you want where you know then you 203 00:21:57,059 --> 00:22:04,419 kind of may as well do it yourself so I think yeah definitely either having someone who is you know 204 00:22:04,419 --> 00:22:09,939 ready to go who's able to kind of go and look at that literature and figure out okay these are the 205 00:22:09,939 --> 00:22:16,259 key points in that challenge. That was that was a little bit difficult. They were still fantastic 206 00:22:16,259 --> 00:22:23,619 and did a lot of work but it was more of the more directed than you know because I did I so much 207 00:22:23,619 --> 00:22:30,259 on that I didn't have as much time to train them. It takes a long time so you've got to have you've 208 00:22:30,259 --> 00:22:36,339 got to find all the resources. So for them while I've done writing and adapting within the textbook 209 00:22:36,339 --> 00:22:44,579 a lot of it has been from other open education resources or open access resources that we've used 210 00:22:44,579 --> 00:22:51,539 parts of and sort of put it together. So yeah, when you're going down making sure that everything 211 00:22:51,539 --> 00:22:59,699 is the copyright is as it should be all of that sort of stuff takes a long time. And even I found 212 00:22:59,699 --> 00:23:04,819 wrapping my head around some things that I thought I was okay, it actually would have meant that the 213 00:23:04,819 --> 00:23:10,739 whole text had to be copyrighted in the same way as that resource to be able to use it. So there 214 00:23:10,739 --> 00:23:17,779 was definitely a big learning curve there, but everyone has been so fantastic. My student partners 215 00:23:17,779 --> 00:23:24,419 of research assistant, the well all of the students who helped me, all incredible all the library 216 00:23:24,419 --> 00:23:32,419 staff they've put in a lot of time. And I've always felt supported and not felt pressure even 217 00:23:32,419 --> 00:23:38,819 though it has taken a long time for me to get the resource out. LAUREN: so what I'm hearing is a few things. 218 00:23:38,819 --> 00:23:43,859 The first is that, by dint of the fact that you designed this or we are at the same time as 219 00:23:43,859 --> 00:23:50,019 designing a unit, the unit itself was open by design which really facilitated an open textbook 220 00:23:50,019 --> 00:23:57,139 and that there was a lot of subject matter expertise besides your own contributing to the quality of 221 00:23:57,139 --> 00:24:02,499 the resource. So you had copyright expertise, you had publishing expertise from the library, and you 222 00:24:02,499 --> 00:24:09,139 had student expertise contributing. TRISH: yes absolutely yeah so it was it was still a lot of work 223 00:24:09,139 --> 00:24:14,179 putting everything together but it was certainly, it would have been a lot more difficult if it was 224 00:24:15,059 --> 00:24:21,299 just me and a unit that had already been developed that I was trying to do this textbook. LAUREN: I think it's 225 00:24:21,299 --> 00:24:26,339 important to call out those different collaborators that were involved though because I think there's 226 00:24:26,339 --> 00:24:32,419 sort of a misconception in OER that it's just you know the loan academic you know tapping away 227 00:24:32,419 --> 00:24:37,779 at their keyboard and then they just stick something on the web which is absolutely not what this is. 228 00:24:37,779 --> 00:24:45,859 TRISH: Not at all. I think yeah that the OER team have been incredible. It would probably be another three 229 00:24:45,859 --> 00:24:53,059 years before I got it out if I didn't have that support. So I essentially came up with word documents 230 00:24:53,059 --> 00:24:59,539 that I'd highlighted with where I got different parts and the incredible OER staff put that into the 231 00:24:59,539 --> 00:25:06,819 Textbook. They found additional open access images. They made it look pretty you know. They did so 232 00:25:06,819 --> 00:25:14,259 much stuff and then a copyright team do a huge amount of work so it's it's massive and yeah I wouldn't 233 00:25:14,259 --> 00:25:19,139 it would take a very long time to do it myself. I certainly wouldn't take on a full textbook 234 00:25:19,139 --> 00:25:24,899 if I had to do it myself. LAUREN: And of the things that really excites me about hearing the attention to 235 00:25:24,899 --> 00:25:31,539 detail on the images and the sources that you're citing and the fact that the resource is openly 236 00:25:31,539 --> 00:25:38,019 Licensed, it means that students can use the content of that resource in the way that best serves 237 00:25:38,019 --> 00:25:45,779 their learning. So if you have students who find big chunks of text hard to parse they could use 238 00:25:45,779 --> 00:25:52,659 their preferred AI tool like notebook LM to turn that into a podcast that they can listen to 239 00:25:52,659 --> 00:25:59,539 or so many other applications where they can't do that with traditionally licensed content. 240 00:26:00,819 --> 00:26:06,339 TRISH: Yeah there's so many different ways that students can use it and even with you know all of the 241 00:26:06,339 --> 00:26:13,299 images have the additional text with them, so that you know students can interact with that in 242 00:26:13,299 --> 00:26:18,339 whatever way they'd like as well. So we've really tried to work on accessibility throughout the text. 243 00:26:18,339 --> 00:26:26,659 LAUREN: What are you hearing about the OER beyond your classroom your teaching? Is it having any impact 244 00:26:26,659 --> 00:26:36,419 in the industry or at other institutions? TRISH: well it's very new so it's only the first three chapters 245 00:26:36,419 --> 00:26:45,859 were only published in January, so I don't know yet. But I would think that it will have high impact 246 00:26:45,859 --> 00:26:52,659 and I think it's also, it's done in such a way that you know one of the big things as a Deakin marine 247 00:26:52,659 --> 00:26:59,219 scientist we really want to have we want to continue to build ocean literacy in the community 248 00:26:59,219 --> 00:27:06,339 and this is a really easy to digest OER that is accessible to everyone so I am hoping and 249 00:27:06,339 --> 00:27:11,299 envisaging that people will jump on and they'll watch some videos and they'll have a have a bit of 250 00:27:11,299 --> 00:27:17,699 a watch and and you know say what what they can learn just in general about our ocean challenges 251 00:27:17,699 --> 00:27:22,579 and how we can help work towards solving them. LAUREN: and you said before that you think this would be 252 00:27:22,579 --> 00:27:30,339 suitable for high school? TRISH: Yeah I think so so probably later year levels but certainly it could be used 253 00:27:30,339 --> 00:27:36,499 for high school all sorts of things and I think I can't remember I have I should have had a look at 254 00:27:36,499 --> 00:27:40,659 how many downloads there's been but there have already been quite a few downloads even when 255 00:27:40,659 --> 00:27:46,819 it wasn't up for very long so hopefully we're going to get some good reach and you know after we 256 00:27:46,819 --> 00:27:52,259 have the book launch we'll have a media release go out with it they're hopefully we'll yeah we'll 257 00:27:52,259 --> 00:28:00,899 spread it far and wide. LAUREN: now you have been a witness to all of this to all the impact that your resource 258 00:28:00,899 --> 00:28:07,619 has had so far on learning on your own teaching thinking about the impact that it might have beyond 259 00:28:07,619 --> 00:28:13,859 Deakin. What does it all mean like what is your interpretation of all of these stories? TRISH: Look, I think 260 00:28:13,859 --> 00:28:22,899 it's really positive. I think that certainly if we can have more people learning in a way that works 261 00:28:22,899 --> 00:28:28,819 for them they're going to want to engage more. And you know them we're we're having more and more 262 00:28:28,819 --> 00:28:36,499 people learn about the marine environment. LAUREN: and what else can we learn from your stories more broadly? 263 00:28:37,779 --> 00:28:44,179 TRISH: If you're thinking about doing an OER certainly it does take longer than you think it's going to, 264 00:28:44,179 --> 00:28:52,979 but start small. If you know it's something that you don't have to work with students I strongly advise 265 00:28:52,979 --> 00:29:01,139 you do if you can, but to make something particularly from an Australian focus where that isn't available 266 00:29:01,139 --> 00:29:06,899 that is accessible to your students, that you know with the cost of living crisis, a textbook is a 267 00:29:06,899 --> 00:29:12,899 lot of money, so the more we can do to help support our students to have those good learning experiences 268 00:29:12,899 --> 00:29:16,979 to actually be able to be in the classroom because they can do that instead of having to go to work 269 00:29:16,979 --> 00:29:24,899 to pay for a textbook. I think that yeah definitely it's well worth it. Again the supports that you get 270 00:29:24,899 --> 00:29:31,939 are incredible. So don't think that you're going in there alone. The OER team is always happy to talk 271 00:29:31,939 --> 00:29:38,099 about potential ideas or what that could look like. So yeah if you're considering it please feel 272 00:29:38,099 --> 00:29:43,299 free to reach out to me. Feel free to reach out to the OER team and they'd be more than happy to help you. 273 00:29:43,299 --> 00:29:52,819 LAUREN: my final question is do you have a favourite part of the OER? TRISH: that's a really good question. I 274 00:29:52,819 --> 00:30:01,459 I think I have a few and some of them are because of students who I worked with that it just 275 00:30:01,459 --> 00:30:07,459 it might not even be it's not really even about the content. It's just a specific thing that we did 276 00:30:07,459 --> 00:30:14,259 like adding flip cards and colour, that makes me think of that student. There's also you know I really 277 00:30:14,259 --> 00:30:21,059 like some of the different resources that we've got. So the student partners created some great 278 00:30:21,059 --> 00:30:27,299 crosswords and different scenario-based questions and things like that, which I think are really great 279 00:30:27,299 --> 00:30:35,299 because they get you thinking but then there's always you know if you aren't quite up to you know you 280 00:30:35,299 --> 00:30:40,739 try to test yourself and you're not quite there you can just go back and read that section 281 00:30:40,739 --> 00:30:47,139 and then have another go. So I just really like how yeah how supportive it is and that you can yeah. 282 00:30:47,139 --> 00:30:52,179 That my students made it with me it just makes it so beautiful LAUREN: And are there more pictures of 283 00:30:52,179 --> 00:30:58,099 the penguins? TRISH: Oh good question I don't think they are actually I'm trying to think there's there's 284 00:30:58,099 --> 00:31:05,139 definitely you know fish photos there might be some little penguins yeah I don't know if there's 285 00:31:05,139 --> 00:31:11,379 more delis in the actual textbook. Lauren we'll have to check it out. Trish, thank you so much I've really 286 00:31:11,379 --> 00:31:17,459 enjoyed this conversation. You as you can see I'm smiling a lot because I just think it's all so 287 00:31:17,459 --> 00:31:23,299 fabulous. Before we wrap, is there anything else that you want to share about Sustainable Marine Futures? 288 00:31:23,299 --> 00:31:30,419 TRISH: I think just yeah go and have a look. See what an interactive textbook looks like and you know you 289 00:31:30,419 --> 00:31:37,699 might find some ways to be able to help solve these challenges. LAUREN: amazing. And that's all for today. 290 00:31:37,699 --> 00:31:47,139 Thank you again, and we'll see you next time. And we're done! TRISH: Okay good job. LAUREN: Stories of Openness is a 291 00:31:47,139 --> 00:31:52,579 limited series from the open education team at Deakin University Library it's part of a research 292 00:31:52,579 --> 00:31:58,419 by podcast project led by me Lauren Halcomb-Smith with Angie Williamson Danni Johnson and Eddie 293 00:31:58,419 --> 00:32:04,659 Pavuna we choose open wherever possible including Audacity for editing, Castopod for hosting, and 294 00:32:04,659 --> 00:32:11,139 music by Scott Holmes music. This podcast by Deakin University is licensed under a CC-by-NC 295 00:32:11,139 --> 00:32:16,602 License. For more information and full acknowledgments please see our show notes.