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lawil: Hey there, this is Lawil
and welcome to a special episode

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of the Future Money Podcast.

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This month, we're doing
something a little bit different.

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As we wrap up this amazing year, it's
a great opportunity to reflect on

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the conversations we've had with our
ecosystem on digital financial inclusion.

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Over the past 12 months, we've
witnessed remarkable progress in

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bridging the financial gap with
our ecosystem flourishing and

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initiatives touching countless lives.

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The conversations featured on the
Future Money Podcast showcase the

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ongoing dialogue about the challenges
and opportunities in creating a more

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inclusive financial system for all.

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For this wrap up, we've curated
a selection of thoughts that

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our guests have shared with us.

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But before we revisit these memorable
moments, we'd like to thank you

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for tuning in to another episode
of the Future Money Podcast.

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And as always, don't forget to
subscribe and like the show on

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Castlebot, Spotify, Apple Podcasts,
Or wherever you listen to your pods.

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We often hear about the rise of digital
transactions as a marker of advancement.

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In the documentary, Bringing Down
a Mountain, Subhashish Panigrahi,

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the creator and director asked
viewers to explore the evolving

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relationship between digital
transactions and financial inclusion

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and to challenge these assumptions.

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subhashish: Just because somebody is
using digital transactions doesn't mean

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that they have more access to money.

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Um, it's just another
medium of transaction.

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A lot of transactions used to happen
in different ways, and now they're

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being tracked and we know that there,
these transactions are happening

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that really doesn't change the status
quo for, for majority of the people.

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So I think one really has to understand
that very clearly that digital

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transactions don't mean financial
inclusion, digital transactions just

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mean that there's a different mode of
transaction, and that is more of More

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of a natural evolution of everything
to me that we are using technology more

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than we were using before, and a lot
of things that were happening sort of

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in analog or physical forms that are
happening digitally now, and we're able

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to track, we're able to generate data.

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It would have been really hard to do that.

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And, you know, it would have been really
impossible actually to know how many

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people are using phones to a transaction.

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So I think, yeah, there's that.

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Um, so I think the other part,
what the film also explores

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is the, uh, sort of ambiguity.

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where it's not very conclusive to say
that things have radically changed and

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there's digital transaction and there's
access to mobile data or there's access

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to devices or there's access to sort
of know how and everything has changed.

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I think it kind of stops at a place
where we say that people have.

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Now power, uh, they have access
to that, uh, sort of socioeconomic

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power that they never had.

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And they are deciding for themselves,
they're exploring and they're

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figuring out things for themselves.

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So it kind of ends there saying
that, you know, there's just one

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mountain that's down and there's
another mountain a few miles ahead.

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What that means is that.

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We are also not seeing sort of
a magical utopia of abolition.

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It's happening in, uh,
in kind of sporadic ways.

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And because of that, we're seeing
changes in some places and there's

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definitely sort of a positive vibe.

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There's hope, there's effort to change
the status quo of, of a community, but

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that doesn't mean that it has happened
everywhere, that in the entire country

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or in all the places people have
achieved that power that they never had.

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lawil: It's clear that digital
transaction and financial inclusion are

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more complex than they first appear.

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But let's move from finance to
something that connects us all, food.

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With Lena Ganinjot, we dove into how
food, art, and community intersect with

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their broader conversational inclusion.

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So let's listen in.

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Lena: Food is the most inclusive thing we
have because we all have that in common.

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We all eat and we all love to eat, right?

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And so it really connects
us at a very deep level.

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And for me, it's, It
brings me so much joy.

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It's very amusing as well to, you know,
create a installation for an opening

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or do an installation in an art space.

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And it's usually those white cubes, right?

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It's very sterile and it's sometimes
a bit intimidating as well.

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And what I love if I do an installation
in those spaces is to see people

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straight away, letting their guard
down and, you know, starting to

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interact with the food and therefore
starting to interact with each other.

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And so it really, becomes like a
means for connection, something

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that's almost, you know, yeah,
playful, almost in a childish way.

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I love to use food as a, as a way to,
you know, make people just let their

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guards down and, and connect with each
other in a way that's very innocent.

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That's immensely fun to do.

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From food to a deep

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lawil: dive into economic
system, the exploration of

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financial inclusion continues.

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Carline Kingma, one of our guests,
emphasizes the importance of

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challenging these existing systems
and imagining something new.

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As we reflect on these insights,
it's crucial to ask, what does the

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future financial system look like?

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Can we collectively design a system
that works better for everyone?

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The next highlight delves into the
speculative nature of economic solutions.

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Carlijn: We can collectively decide
this money system in this specific

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architecture is working for us.

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It's not inclusive.

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It's not, uh, uh, contributing
to a sustainable economy.

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Um, we want something else.

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And then you come to the, to the
next step, which is maybe even

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harder than understanding the current
system, which is already hard.

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Um, and that's envisioning or being
able to imagine something different.

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And as I said already in the introduction,
uh, about this first work, The History

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of Utopia, uh, envisioning a future
scenario or a future, uh, is, uh,

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something, is a tricky business.

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Because you, um, always make a
simplification, of course, uh, of a

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very large system which has been, uh,
grown over time, um, yeah, and you're,

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you're, um, proposing something new.

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So what, yeah, what we decided
to do is to come up with three

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completely different future scenarios.

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Yeah, they are on an ideological scale.

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They are, uh, completely
different from each other.

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They propose three completely
different kind of solutions to,

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so they also have a different, uh,
analysis of what is wrong in our now.

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Yeah.

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And, and what Hollis asked, what I, what
I forgot now to reflect upon, what we

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saw in also by presenting these different
future scenarios, because they're also,

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they're all, all three of them are also
a bit funny and a bit weird, but they

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have very different Systemic solutions.

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Uh, people responded quite, uh, well also
always with a bit, a bit laughing and

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sometimes also, uh, saying that, that,
that these solutions are also quite scary.

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But then they also came to the
conclusion that the system that

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we have now is also quite extreme,
so that's also very beautiful.

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That's a beautiful conclusion.

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Of course, uh, we have now
a system in which private

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companies that our banks create.

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the substantial part of our money.

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That's quite an extreme scenario.

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If you put them as one of the, as
a, as a fourth scenario next to the

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three scenarios that we also proposed.

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So that that's already, yeah,
it's, it becomes actually.

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A different lens again through which
you can look to our society now.

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And it gives you some tools to talk
about your options for the future.

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lawil: As Carline Kingmer explored,
envisioning a different future is not

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an easy task, especially when it comes
to challenging these entrenched systems.

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The three future scenarios she presented
invites us to reconsider the very

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architecture of our current system,
offering bold, sometimes unconventional

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solutions to our economic challenges.

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But these scenarios Also raise
the questions about how we

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perceive value in our world.

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Mia Wright Ross's perspective takes
us deeper into this question of value,

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not just in terms of money, but in the
broader, more inclusive sense, how do we

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recognize the worth of individuals and
communities, especially when traditional

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systems of measurements like bank
accounts or government issued IDs, don't

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always reflect the full picture of what
makes someone valuable in her view.

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Artists play a pivotal role in reshaping
these definitions, creating spaces where

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value is not defined by financial systems,
but by human creativity and connections.

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Mia: Finance is not about value, right?

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Because what we're talking about
is the interpretation of value.

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And not just the commodification of value.

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So yeah, I think artists, as long as we
keep doing what we've been doing and not

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looking for anybody else to tell us what
we're supposed to be doing, it will always

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happen because the ideas come from us.

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So there's that.

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Hollis: That's true.

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I really love the way you phrase that.

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And I think that's a, that's a
really poignant way to end this.

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episode because I think a lot of
what we're talking about, like what

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Interledger Foundation is focused on
is this whole point of value and the

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intrinsic value of each individual.

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And that it's not just like that your
net worth defines how valuable you are

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in society or how value, you know, that
a bank can determine like how valuable a

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person is, but being far more expansive
about what it means to be valuable.

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And, you know, And respecting
and recognizing even in

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Mia: that

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Hollis: structure, it

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Mia: changes on a daily basis.

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That's right.

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Like the euro versus
the dollar versus yen.

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It changes on a regular basis.

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So why would I be going?

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Hollis: Exactly.

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Totally.

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Mia: When in certain communities.

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Yes.

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Certain like a woven cloth is valuable.

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just as valuable as a dollar.

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So it depends on what artists
or what interpretation aspect

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you're coming at, for sure.

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Hollis: That's so real.

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But I think just like what I'm left with
to reflect on and to feel emboldened by

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is that like artists and creatives, they,
we reset and redefine what value means

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and recognize that like value is not what
you have in your bank account or like

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value is not the passport that you hold or
passport you know like any of these kind

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of state defined mechanisms of devaluing.

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lawil: Nia Wright Ross her reflections
on value highlight the transformative

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role that artists and creators play in
reshaping our understanding of value.

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as we move beyond the financial
measures and state defined systems to

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something more intrinsic and expensive.

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This idea connects deeply with the
larger conversation about financial

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inclusion, as it is not just about
access to money, but about challenging

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the systems that determine who
gets to decide what is valuable.

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The Resimulate team of the Future
Money, Arts and Culture grant of

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the Intellectual Foundation has been
exploring these very themes in their work.

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where they question the conventional
economic narratives and debunk

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myths about wealth and success.

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Their focus on speculative futures and
financial inclusion underscores the need

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to imagine not just financial system but
the very ideas of value that underlie

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them, offering a new lens through which
we can envision a more equitable future.

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Chris: Rather, just to work in the
speculative spectrum and, and, and on

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absolute truths that show us the day
to day, how we are going to become

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a millionaire or how we're going to
grow a rapidly economy, no, and these

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traps have more to do with a series
of false gurus about the economy.

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So that was something our, our
interest at the time we were discussing

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how we are going to use this data.

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What was going to be the information
that we're going to show?

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I think to be clear that our way of
connecting everything was going to

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be and it's going to be contradictory
to this experience of self help.

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Hollis: What did financial inclusion
mean to you through the process of

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this project and what is your vision
for a financially inclusive future?

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Chris: I think it goes hand in hand
a little with what I was saying about

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how speculative all this can be.

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I believe that the idea of financial
inclusion, well, we wanted to work

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from the fictional from the speculative
experience, but it was also like reviewing

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the data And figures of ecuador and
seeing exactly how the data continues

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to resonate For me, I think it was very
decisive How the economies are working

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in a country like ecuador and now
thinking about the context and how this

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is developing also a very harsh economic
reality related to economic Acclimation of

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inequality that is prominent in Ecuador.

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So for me, I believe that part of
working on that idea of financial

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inclusion was a little bit of working
on how we debunk these myths about

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self help and financial management.

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It was a bit about that.

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How do we work with ideas constantly
implanted in us, but how do we make them

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verifiable with current information?

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I think, I think I still, it's
still within the data management.

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It continues to show us despite using
the ideas of self help or trying to make

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schemes that these, these figures of
this supposed formulas of, of sauces.

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Well, it, it continues to give
us very chilling data about the

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inequity in a country like Ecuador.

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I think it applies to,
to in, in many contexts.

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Felipe: I share a lot of what Carlos is
mentioning in the sense that, uh, well,

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in my research, I don't do directly
financial inclusion, but I read a lot

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of research, academic research and
financial inclusion, and there's a

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lot of So, uh, legal policies and that
can be done to try to improve things.

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Now shifting from

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lawil: the speculative realm of financial
systems to a more practical conversation.

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We begin to explore how
financial inclusion impacts

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individuals on the ground.

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We've heard about the myths around
financial management and how we

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can challenge them with real data.

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And now you're going to hear from Uchi
as he shares how his personal experience

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with currency exchange helped him realize
the importance of financial literacy

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in achieving true financial inclusion.

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Uchi: And I lost about
30 percent of the U.

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S.

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dollars exchanging it to, to Canadian
just because of the exchange rate.

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When I arrived in Canada, I was like,
I could have just done this in the

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bank, or I could just have created
a USD account and things like that.

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But I didn't have that knowledge, right?

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And that's why since then, I've always
wanted to create opportunities for others

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not to be in the same situation, right?

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And that's why I believe that financial
inclusion starts with education, right?

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So providing the right education
and the right learning for everyone

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and access to that knowledge, uh,
is where financial inclusion starts.

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lawil: But if you would compare it
to now, uh, the internet and digital

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connectivity, do you believe it has
increased, uh, financial literacy?

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Uchi: Oh yeah.

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Uh, connectivity has made
financial inclusion Uh, definitely,

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uh, more mainstream, right?

257
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Many more people are financially included.

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And that's why there's more that we
can do with including, uh, more people

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in the financial ecosystem, right?

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Because many people have access
to the internet right now.

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And that's why I think.

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We should start transitioning
from financial inclusion to

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economic empowerment, right?

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Because I mean, with financial inclusion,
the story has been providing access to

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financial services, providing access to
banking services, and things like that.

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But I think we're, we
could do more than that.

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And that's why AchieveMoney, we're
a strong advocate of financial

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inclusion, but Even stronger
advocates for economic empowerment.

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And I mean, it's a movement that we'd
find with economic empowerment, we want

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to provide opportunities for people to end
and also increase their quality of life.

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So platforms and products and services
that help people connect to maybe job

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opportunities, uh, connect to easy
ways of getting paid for the value

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they create, and also being able
to spend that value, uh, locally.

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So they get paid.

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Maybe by working a remote job for a, for
a, an employer outside their country,

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they should be able to easily access
those funds and then spend it later.

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That's why I think financial
inclusion should evolve too.

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Uchi's

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lawil: emphasis on moving from financial
inclusion to economic empowerment

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aligns with the broader need to
address these diverse challenges people

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face in accessing financial systems.

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Sharji highlights how financial
exclusion is not just a matter of

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access, But also deeply intertwined
with social and cultural barriers.

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Let's dive into her perspective
on this important issue.

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Xioaij: And even though I grew up in
a quite like urban citizenship, uh,

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00:17:29,484 --> 00:17:33,215
household in China, where we have
a sort of like a socialist feminist

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00:17:33,245 --> 00:17:39,950
infrastructure, where the double income,
family in China were quite high compared

288
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to many other countries in the world.

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00:17:42,010 --> 00:17:45,809
Money has always been a topic that
women are supposedly not talk about.

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00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:51,060
Women are very often not the one that
actually like take control and have access

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00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:53,695
to a lot of financial, uh, services.

292
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Another entry point for me to understand
financial inclusion was also in Europe,

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00:17:59,135 --> 00:18:04,005
generally financial inclusion has
been seen as like a quite a lot of

294
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like what Western and middle European
country has achieved very high level

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00:18:08,735 --> 00:18:12,145
of financial inclusion or almost full.

296
00:18:12,495 --> 00:18:16,925
But, um, as I mentioned before, I
used to work a lot with migrants,

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refugees, and asylum seekers.

298
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But.

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I know with my own eyes, that
is not the case for them.

300
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I know in my own eyes that many of them
are quite excluded from the system.

301
00:18:29,235 --> 00:18:31,015
They were very limited access for them.

302
00:18:31,385 --> 00:18:38,024
And even for the Chinese immigrants
community of second or third generations

303
00:18:38,044 --> 00:18:42,774
in Europe, many of them still has
a fear of the financial systems.

304
00:18:43,290 --> 00:18:43,610
here.

305
00:18:43,990 --> 00:18:48,700
And their fear of financial system
exclude them from getting access to it.

306
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,820
And a lot of their needs were
not met, such as, uh, currency

307
00:18:52,820 --> 00:18:55,839
exchange and also handling taxes.

308
00:18:56,110 --> 00:18:59,480
I've seen the consequences of
this sort of financial exclusion.

309
00:18:59,770 --> 00:19:05,735
And this is what, you know, brings me sort
of to this topic and brings me also to

310
00:19:05,785 --> 00:19:09,195
my project, the Parallel Society project.

311
00:19:09,855 --> 00:19:15,465
Parallel Society project as a project is
a storytelling game that kind of explores

312
00:19:15,465 --> 00:19:20,584
the financial inclusion as a topic by
featuring the fate of the two characters

313
00:19:21,054 --> 00:19:27,695
and what I What's interesting in this
project was the two characters, one as

314
00:19:27,695 --> 00:19:31,855
a migrant and one as a rural villager.

315
00:19:32,385 --> 00:19:38,695
So usually in political discourses,
migrants and local working class people,

316
00:19:38,705 --> 00:19:42,745
marginalized local populations are
very often pitted against each other.

317
00:19:43,330 --> 00:19:48,080
I use the concept of parallel society is
also a bit of a play in the world because

318
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:53,440
parallel society in the German context is
maybe in the whole European context is,

319
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:59,519
uh, it's a term that is used to usually
describe like self organization of like,

320
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,750
uh, ethnic or religious minorities.

321
00:20:02,199 --> 00:20:03,770
And after it was coined.

322
00:20:04,370 --> 00:20:07,300
There were a lot of like policy
based on it, but there's also

323
00:20:07,300 --> 00:20:08,800
a lot of controversy around it.

324
00:20:09,170 --> 00:20:15,059
I am also not a very big fan of this
term because of it puts emphasizes

325
00:20:15,574 --> 00:20:23,515
on the minorities themselves to bear
the responsibility of integrating

326
00:20:23,545 --> 00:20:28,495
into a society where there aren't
enough integration infrastructure.

327
00:20:28,975 --> 00:20:34,595
So there were a lot of like discussion
like academic critiques of it um

328
00:20:34,615 --> 00:20:41,465
that is used to describe this group
of communities that were being cut

329
00:20:41,465 --> 00:20:46,074
off from very often access from
the so called mainstream culture.

330
00:20:46,404 --> 00:20:49,874
And in those kinds of discourse,
integration and assimilation are

331
00:20:49,874 --> 00:20:51,925
usually used interchangeably.

332
00:20:52,545 --> 00:20:54,945
Even though they mean
completely different things.

333
00:20:55,365 --> 00:20:59,595
So this is a bit of my play
with the word related to

334
00:20:59,845 --> 00:21:00,254
lawil: this.

335
00:21:00,905 --> 00:21:04,655
Xiaozhi's insight into exclusion
faced by marginalized communities

336
00:21:04,735 --> 00:21:07,435
and the concept of parallel
societies offer a deeper insight.

337
00:21:07,449 --> 00:21:10,249
Dive into the complexities
of financial inclusion.

338
00:21:10,900 --> 00:21:15,180
Similarly, Esther's approach to community
based governance and self determination

339
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:20,250
brings another layer to this conversation,
highlighting how participatory practices

340
00:21:20,250 --> 00:21:24,920
can empower individuals and change the
way they interact with financial systems.

341
00:21:26,700 --> 00:21:31,060
Esther: Each village back creates their
own constitution and govern themselves.

342
00:21:31,150 --> 00:21:32,280
So self governance.

343
00:21:32,890 --> 00:21:38,270
My practice always takes an African
feminist and colonial approach.

344
00:21:38,290 --> 00:21:44,690
So it can be very easy to fall into
an extractive practice where you say

345
00:21:44,730 --> 00:21:47,269
I'm the artist, I know what I'm doing.

346
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,879
And so give me your existence
and I'll present it.

347
00:21:52,429 --> 00:21:58,739
Um, and so taking a decolonial approach
in this project was really about

348
00:21:59,050 --> 00:22:02,310
stepping back as an artist and listening.

349
00:22:02,625 --> 00:22:10,055
So I knew that we had to exhibit something
and we wanted to tell stories and to

350
00:22:10,055 --> 00:22:16,665
create an archive, but it was really
a discipline to not decide on behalf

351
00:22:16,665 --> 00:22:20,155
of the communities what that would be.

352
00:22:20,555 --> 00:22:24,515
And so when we're reaching out
to people in our communities, it

353
00:22:24,515 --> 00:22:26,325
was really tell us your stories.

354
00:22:26,325 --> 00:22:29,275
If you're inviting us into
your homes, you're inviting us.

355
00:22:29,830 --> 00:22:34,070
into the practice you have
created something that has

356
00:22:34,070 --> 00:22:35,780
been sustaining your community.

357
00:22:36,140 --> 00:22:38,140
And so that's how we went about it.

358
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But this method takes time.

359
00:22:41,330 --> 00:22:45,730
And as I always mentioned, it takes trust
because they have to trust you as well

360
00:22:45,730 --> 00:22:51,550
to invite you into their, their homes
and to share how they do village banking.

361
00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:55,310
Cause it's also finance and
people Sometimes I'm not the most

362
00:22:55,340 --> 00:22:59,910
comfortable talking about money, so
that's how we we set out to do it.

363
00:22:59,910 --> 00:23:05,539
It actually took a lot more time
to get the meetings because we

364
00:23:05,539 --> 00:23:11,560
wanted it to be really a safe space
and a free open space for sharing.

365
00:23:12,399 --> 00:23:15,289
lawil: Anster's work emphasizes
the power of community driven

366
00:23:15,289 --> 00:23:18,840
stories and the importance of trust
in building inclusive systems.

367
00:23:19,479 --> 00:23:22,739
As we shift from grassroots practices
to the future of digital financial

368
00:23:22,739 --> 00:23:26,090
tools, we had a short time with the
creators of the Interledger Protocol.

369
00:23:26,309 --> 00:23:30,269
In this section, Evan Schwarz will
discuss how innovations like Interledger

370
00:23:30,299 --> 00:23:33,509
could revolutionize financial
inclusion by creating a seamless,

371
00:23:33,519 --> 00:23:35,350
universal payment system for all.

372
00:23:36,649 --> 00:23:41,479
Evan: When the internet was, was
rolling out, it was not obvious.

373
00:23:41,850 --> 00:23:46,890
How widespread it would become and how
ubiquitous it would become and I think

374
00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:52,090
that's sort of the Potential which is
both like very interesting and also to be

375
00:23:52,090 --> 00:23:55,970
honest a little bit scary with something
like interledger where I think it has the

376
00:23:55,970 --> 00:24:02,519
potential to be everywhere in a sense,
um, and the the idea of Making it such

377
00:24:02,519 --> 00:24:07,999
that there's like one universal payment
Network or internetwork such that anyone

378
00:24:07,999 --> 00:24:14,500
can pay anyone for anything basically It
would make it possible to include that in

379
00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:19,449
a lot more places So stefano mentioned,
uh the web and obviously like way more

380
00:24:19,450 --> 00:24:24,540
of society and life is being hooked up to
the internet and The payment experience

381
00:24:24,570 --> 00:24:29,669
is kind of clunky still and so you that
does push towards centralization with

382
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:34,720
Services that can hold on to your credit
card details and then charge you little

383
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:39,735
amounts every every once in a while So
with interledger You could have payment

384
00:24:39,735 --> 00:24:44,685
experiences that are much more seamless
that are hooked up to a lot more places

385
00:24:44,695 --> 00:24:49,534
so that that could be ranging from like
paying for transit in different countries

386
00:24:49,534 --> 00:24:56,625
to consuming content or any any type of
business transaction that you do instead

387
00:24:56,625 --> 00:25:00,385
of this discussion around like Oh, what
payment network should we use for this?

388
00:25:00,625 --> 00:25:05,915
You just say here's the money That's
a little bit of a vague answer, but

389
00:25:06,215 --> 00:25:09,975
I do think it's a little bit hard
to predict how something like that

390
00:25:10,215 --> 00:25:14,155
would roll out, or like what kind of
applications people would end up with.

391
00:25:14,185 --> 00:25:17,585
Because I think a lot of the most
exciting applications of the internet

392
00:25:17,585 --> 00:25:21,485
were things that probably would have
been very difficult to foresee before.

393
00:25:22,894 --> 00:25:26,254
lawil: Eva Schwarz perspective
on a potential for a universal

394
00:25:26,254 --> 00:25:27,909
payment system like the interledger.

395
00:25:28,550 --> 00:25:31,880
Really opens up exciting possibilities
for the future of digital transactions.

396
00:25:32,490 --> 00:25:36,159
But as he pointed out, the challenges
are significant and it's going to take

397
00:25:36,159 --> 00:25:39,510
more than just a technical innovation
to create the kind of impact we need.

398
00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:43,640
So what does this more equitable future
look like and how do we build it?

399
00:25:44,029 --> 00:25:44,610
That's where Dr.

400
00:25:44,610 --> 00:25:48,330
Mangle comes in, focusing not
only on technology, but on the

401
00:25:48,340 --> 00:25:49,860
people in the community it serves.

402
00:25:50,170 --> 00:25:51,290
Mangle: So I have the same question.

403
00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:54,540
So the same question of like,
what does This future of money

404
00:25:54,540 --> 00:25:56,499
look like what needs to get done.

405
00:25:57,120 --> 00:25:58,420
I want to be straightforward.

406
00:25:58,970 --> 00:26:01,110
Anything I come up with, I can't do it.

407
00:26:01,739 --> 00:26:06,550
Like there needs to be a team
and my foreshadowing even more.

408
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,150
I'm applying for a sabbatical
to answer this question.

409
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,010
My post was going to be
and it's still going to be.

410
00:26:13,010 --> 00:26:14,859
It's just like the word might
not be exactly what I say.

411
00:26:14,859 --> 00:26:15,639
It is going to be here.

412
00:26:16,215 --> 00:26:20,325
But like what I'm looking for are
these moonshot sort of skunk work

413
00:26:20,325 --> 00:26:25,345
project teams that we can focus on
making an impact that is creative.

414
00:26:25,565 --> 00:26:26,535
It's innovative.

415
00:26:26,835 --> 00:26:30,075
Uh, and I teach those in class,
like the yes, and the removing your

416
00:26:30,075 --> 00:26:34,034
perceptual blocks, your emotional
blocks, your cultural blocks to

417
00:26:34,044 --> 00:26:36,344
being able to create these new ideas.

418
00:26:36,864 --> 00:26:39,385
I have a little bit of technical, a
little bit of this, a little bit of that.

419
00:26:39,909 --> 00:26:42,580
But realistically, like
it's going to be a team.

420
00:26:43,090 --> 00:26:47,250
The aspirational goal is I
think a killer app in the space.

421
00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:51,599
I use the, it's not a sci fi quote here,
but like, how do you eat an elephant?

422
00:26:51,909 --> 00:26:54,100
And the response is one bite at a time.

423
00:26:54,789 --> 00:26:57,699
I think you need one bite
from a small group of people.

424
00:26:57,709 --> 00:26:59,494
Like, I think it's a small team.

425
00:26:59,955 --> 00:27:06,185
That is doing or trying to do some amazing
things and I through academia am Are

426
00:27:06,185 --> 00:27:10,004
in a privileged spot where the idea of
a sabbatical of like you leave to make

427
00:27:10,004 --> 00:27:15,534
an impact And that's what i'm trying to
figure out like I think I have issues

428
00:27:15,574 --> 00:27:19,415
and I think i've taught this before like
with students like having these digital

429
00:27:19,415 --> 00:27:25,149
financial tools That are really not
working to their benefit Or it's working

430
00:27:25,149 --> 00:27:31,810
for a select few or meaning geography wise
or individuals of a certain demographic.

431
00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:36,920
And I'm concerned about when the
future of money is decided by those

432
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,219
who control them, the money supply.

433
00:27:40,049 --> 00:27:42,499
I don't want to be like, this is where
I think, I think it's going to go.

434
00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:44,109
These are just concerns that I have.

435
00:27:44,110 --> 00:27:48,855
And it's going to take Some people to
really sacrifice time and that's sort

436
00:27:48,855 --> 00:27:52,525
of like what the sabbatical is for me
like sacrifice time to figure this out.

437
00:27:52,625 --> 00:27:56,434
I think there's been one consistent
thread here it's like the idea

438
00:27:56,434 --> 00:28:00,875
of impact and I think that the
killer app idea like finding I

439
00:28:00,895 --> 00:28:01,824
think we know what the problem is.

440
00:28:03,414 --> 00:28:03,634
lawil: Dr.

441
00:28:03,634 --> 00:28:06,995
Mengele's vision for an equitable future
underscores the power of collaboration

442
00:28:06,995 --> 00:28:10,344
and creative moonshot thinking,
highlighting that it's going to take

443
00:28:10,344 --> 00:28:12,094
a team to truly make a difference.

444
00:28:12,445 --> 00:28:16,094
Building on an idea of innovation
and meeting the world's needs, we

445
00:28:16,094 --> 00:28:19,735
now turn to Yoram, whose perspective
on the future of fintechs challenges

446
00:28:19,735 --> 00:28:21,604
us to think beyond just technology.

447
00:28:22,284 --> 00:28:26,510
Yoram said, Emphasizes that the best way
to predict the future is to invent it.

448
00:28:26,740 --> 00:28:30,150
And he has a bold outlook on how
infrastructure and performance

449
00:28:30,260 --> 00:28:32,080
will evolve in the coming years.

450
00:28:32,460 --> 00:28:35,689
So let's hear more about his vision
for the next phase of fintech

451
00:28:35,699 --> 00:28:37,410
innovations needed to support it.

452
00:28:38,010 --> 00:28:40,990
Joran: The best way to predict
the future is to invent it.

453
00:28:41,860 --> 00:28:45,710
And now we need to ask ourselves,
okay, so it's important to predict.

454
00:28:45,780 --> 00:28:47,260
How do you predict you need to invent?

455
00:28:47,820 --> 00:28:49,120
Next question, how do you invent?

456
00:28:49,140 --> 00:28:53,500
And then that great inventor, Thomas
Edison, he said, well, I look at what the

457
00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:58,130
world needs and then I proceed to invent.

458
00:28:58,470 --> 00:29:00,810
So he wasn't a great inventor so much.

459
00:29:00,810 --> 00:29:03,460
He was a great archaeologist of needs.

460
00:29:03,470 --> 00:29:07,740
You know, he could find the needs and
just serve those needs and, and you'll

461
00:29:07,749 --> 00:29:09,539
be an inventor in passing, I think.

462
00:29:10,009 --> 00:29:12,450
So what is the next 30 years of FinTech?

463
00:29:12,980 --> 00:29:15,700
I think we have to look
at what the world needs.

464
00:29:16,745 --> 00:29:20,135
And then we need to see, you know, what
are the goals to serve those needs?

465
00:29:20,485 --> 00:29:22,935
What's the methodology to hit those goals?

466
00:29:23,185 --> 00:29:24,965
And that's kind of the Tiger Beetle story.

467
00:29:24,975 --> 00:29:29,795
You know, I think the world is definitely
not going to want slower buggy databases.

468
00:29:30,235 --> 00:29:33,455
It's going to want them to be a
thousand times faster already.

469
00:29:33,725 --> 00:29:37,395
We we're actually concerned that we're
not giving enough performance because

470
00:29:37,685 --> 00:29:39,915
some sectors are already 10, 000 X.

471
00:29:39,955 --> 00:29:41,925
We've only designed for a thousand X.

472
00:29:42,575 --> 00:29:46,955
So it's kind of like the world is
going to need faster infrastructure

473
00:29:47,015 --> 00:29:50,155
because you can trade that
performance for cost efficiency.

474
00:29:50,565 --> 00:29:55,375
It's going to be wanting to run multi
cloud by default, like I'm talking

475
00:29:55,375 --> 00:29:59,515
to my area, but for FinTech, I think
regulators are going to say they're

476
00:29:59,515 --> 00:30:02,975
already saying, you know, you can't
only be running on one, one of three

477
00:30:02,975 --> 00:30:06,525
providers because that provider goes down
and a third of the country goes down.

478
00:30:06,545 --> 00:30:11,785
So, so open source is going to be
critical that we're not locked in and.

479
00:30:12,085 --> 00:30:13,785
Infrastructure becomes commodity.

480
00:30:13,855 --> 00:30:16,075
It has to be commodity and utility.

481
00:30:16,685 --> 00:30:21,135
The future is going to be
faster, safer, better, I hope.

482
00:30:22,355 --> 00:30:25,045
At least that's what I, you know,
that's, that's, that's what we're all

483
00:30:25,045 --> 00:30:26,865
here for as a generation, isn't it?

484
00:30:26,865 --> 00:30:30,365
So, and then our kids will, will
look back at us and say, you know,

485
00:30:30,365 --> 00:30:33,665
Oh, 30 years ago there was this
database called Tiger Beetle.

486
00:30:34,175 --> 00:30:35,075
It's too slow.

487
00:30:46,495 --> 00:30:49,025
lawil: As we wrap up, it's clear
that the conversations we've had

488
00:30:49,025 --> 00:30:50,415
this year are just the beginning.

489
00:30:50,805 --> 00:30:54,665
From the possibilities of reimagining
community driven solutions to leveraging

490
00:30:54,665 --> 00:30:59,175
technology for global digital financial
inclusion, and innovating at the very

491
00:30:59,175 --> 00:31:00,985
core of our digital infrastructure.

492
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,000
Each perspective has painted a
picture of what the future could hold.

493
00:31:05,290 --> 00:31:09,140
It's not just about the tools or the
systems, it's about the people behind

494
00:31:09,190 --> 00:31:12,790
them, the values driving them, and
the impact they strive to create.

495
00:31:13,260 --> 00:31:15,850
Thank you to all of our speakers
for sharing their insights,

496
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,190
and thank you to our audience
for joining us on this journey.

497
00:31:19,845 --> 00:31:23,515
As we head into the holiday season,
let's take this time to reflect on what

498
00:31:23,515 --> 00:31:27,805
we've learned, appreciate the connections
we've made, and recharge for work ahead.

499
00:31:28,115 --> 00:31:32,115
Together, let's continue to dream,
innovate, and build a more equitable

500
00:31:32,275 --> 00:31:34,365
and financially inclusive future.

501
00:31:34,835 --> 00:31:38,075
To learn more about the Intellectual
Foundation, visit our website where you

502
00:31:38,075 --> 00:31:41,675
can find all of the published episodes
and more information on our guests,

503
00:31:41,835 --> 00:31:43,955
grant programs, and other resources.

504
00:31:44,355 --> 00:31:48,145
Wishing you all a joyful holiday
season filled with peace,

505
00:31:48,205 --> 00:31:50,525
inspiration and meaningful moments.

506
00:31:51,015 --> 00:31:54,215
We look forward to seeing you at our
next discussion in the near year.

507
00:31:54,445 --> 00:31:57,115
Until then, take care and stay inspired.