Uchi: When I was moving from Nigeria to Canada, I had some like US dollar cash
and I needed to get Canadian dollars.
So at the airport, I saw those like a foreign exchange kiosks and I
approached them and I, Asked to change the money to, to Canadian dollars.
I mean, they were happy.
They, they customized experience was great, but what I didn't realize is that
the exchange rate was really, really bad and I lost about 30 percent of the U S
dollars exchanging it to, to Canadian, just because of the exchange rate.
When I arrived in Canada, I was like, I could have just done this to the bank or
I could just have created a USD account.
And things like that, but I didn't have that knowledge, right?
And that's why since then I've always wanted to create opportunities for others
not to be in the same situation, right?
And that's why I believe that financial inclusion starts with education.
Lawil: And today I'm in conversation with Uche Uchebeke, a Nigerian
Canadian technologist and entrepreneur.
Uche shares his journey from Nigeria to studying in Canada, highlighting
the importance of resilience, community building, and giving back.
He discusses Founding Chimani, a platform for financial inclusion
and economic empowerment.
Aiming to enhance financial services, support digital identities, and of course
the adoption of the intellectual protocol.
Thank you for listening to another episode of the Future Money Podcast.
So thank you, Chi, for being here.
Uchi: Yeah, thanks, Lawil for having me.
Really excited to be here, and uh, looking forward to,
Lawil: Um, let's start with you.
Could you tell us more about yourself?
Uchi: Awesome.
Yeah.
Thank you.
So my name is Uchi, I always like to say Uchi as in Gucci and, uh, um,
Nigerian Canadian, before moving to Canada, I grew up in the Southern part
of Nigeria, close to the Atlantic ocean.
So growing up in Nigeria was, was a very, uh, rewarding and amazing experience.
So I remember walking, uh, like five kilometers every day to
school and then just coming back, having dinner with my family and,
uh, watching the news at night.
That was, uh, some of the best part of, uh, growing up family.
And the journey from, from Nigeria to, to Canada was, was a very,
uh, interesting one because I was already studying in Nigeria.
So doing computer science, so, and I realized that I wasn't getting hands
on experience or practical experience.
So I decided that I was going to move to Canada.
A different country to compete with the best of the best.
And it was a long journey that took three years.
So multiple, uh, scholarship exams and trying to get my
university education fully funded.
So after three years, I was able to.
secure a scholarship and move to Canada to study.
And I think probably one of the best decisions I made.
Lawil: Are there a lot of scholarships around like if
you're a young person in Nigeria?
I know now it's a very booming scene, but if you look back
into What is it your generation?
How was it to enter that space?
Uchi: Yeah, for sure.
So when I this was like almost 11 years ago, uh when I moved to Canada, so They
had more Scholarship opportunities, especially by different governments in
Nigeria, and I guess in, in most cases is very competitive because Nigeria has about
200 million people, and all of these are vying for these limited opportunities.
And I mean, the goal of these programs, uh, was to.
I suppose, or bring opportunities for more Nigerians to go outside and study
and bring back the knowledge back home.
So there are still opportunities like that, but now I feel like they are
more limited and even more competitive.
Lawil: But do these scholarships, uh, create a brain drain or, um, do
citizens move back or return afterwards?
Uchi: So for me specifically, after I moved to Canada and, uh, finished school
and started working at Shopify and other companies, I realized that, There are
also very smart people back home in Nigeria and the rest of Africa, right?
But the challenge is that the opportunities are limited.
So opportunities are not equally or evenly distributed across the world.
So I decided to create something with some friends.
So a community of developers and aspiring developers, right, and we're
able to bring together young, Uh, and vibrant Africans across multiple
African countries, and also young people of African descent in the U.
S.
and Canada, and form a community which we're able to grow to almost
50K people in, in a few years.
Lawil: Oh, wow.
That's truly impressive.
Just to clarify this to our listeners.
Um, which is now discussing NINJAHAX, could you tell us more about this?
Uchi: That's correct.
Yes.
So NINJAHAX.
Yes.
Yeah.
So NINJAHAX started out in, uh, uh, 2018.
So the goal was to organize events, conferences, and also bring job
opportunities to the community members.
Mm hmm.
But the impact that we had was mostly on connecting folks to opportunities
outside and within the African continent.
And it has evolved since then.
So we organized hackathons, conferences, career fairs, and things like that.
Lawil: So what inspired you to create this?
Uchi: So it was the journey that I, that I was on, right?
So starting out in Nigeria, I knew I, when I watch like the news or when
I see what's happening in that part of the world, there are lots of very
smart people doing amazing things.
And while Multiple African countries have really, really great opportunities.
They are also like, uh, additional opportunities outside Africa.
Right.
So I was like, why don't we connect folks?
Or create a bridge between aspiring people in tech in Africa to connect them
to other parts of the, of the world.
And that's what we, what we did.
So originally the goal was to bring a hundred people together in a
weekend to build and try to connect to the employers at the hackathon.
We did the first one and we got about 600 people to attend the event and got
a few partners to join, and then we could clearly realize that, you know,
By bringing people together, just by having a space where people can connect,
can meet a network, you just create, uh, an exponential impact, right?
So community, I mean, now it's, it's popular and it's more known that
starting with a community, it's, it's very, it's very impactful.
And I mean, we did that and we're inspired by, Just how smart people in Africa are.
And also the realization that Africans have the potential and also the
ability to compete regardless of where in the world they find themselves.
Lawil: It's amazing that you were able to build these bridges and
that you're playing a pivotal role in the Nigerian ecosystem.
Uchi: Yeah.
Thank you so much.
Yes.
It's been a privilege.
I feel, I think there's nothing more rewarding than just seeing
people Get opportunities or land roles when, uh, from the community.
Right.
So the work that we're doing to connect people to opportunities, I think it's
one of the most rewarding things ever.
Lawil: I completely agree, but your career started differently.
So what triggered you to pursue this path?
Uchi: Yeah, that's a very good one.
So I started getting interested in, in tech, uh, when I was in high school.
So I remember vividly going to a cyber cafe for those who are not familiar.
Yeah, a cyber cafe, it's like a co working space, but you, you
buy time to use the internet.
And, uh, the first time I went there, I was In high school.
So I went to a cyber cafe, opened a Yahoo mail and started just
playing around the internet.
And once I realized that you could do a lot and learn a lot
from a computer, I was sold.
I told myself that this is the space I want to be in.
And all of my focus went towards like just learning about computers.
So after.
Uh, when in high school, all my teachers and even my parents were
saying I should like focus on being a doctor and, and things like that,
but I knew I didn't want to do that.
So I just kind of said no.
And it was, I mean, it was a very challenging situation to say no
to parents and also teachers.
But I, I, I focused on it.
Yeah.
Lawil: I can only imagine being African myself, understanding the culture.
I can only imagine what type of challenges must have been for your parents.
There's being a completely new field for them.
Uchi: Because my dad, right, when I was growing up, he said he saw a vision that
there was like a doctor beside my name.
It's
Lawil: a beautiful vision though.
So
Uchi: So Me now deciding that I didn't want to be a doctor was like
a huge conflict at home right then But ultimately they supported my my
decision despite the fact that I was still like a kid then So they supported
my decision and they saw that That's what I wanted and my first programming
language was actually basic and Fortran.
So I was learning how to code on paper, right?
So I didn't really have a laptop or a computer.
So all of my coding, uh, in high school was just like writing
code on paper, pen and paper.
And I mean, that was like a very good, uh, experience.
And it taught me like resilience and just being able to create
something out of nothing.
Lawil: I completely understand.
So it wasn't, you weren't able then to use kind of like what is it the
cyber cafe to practice more or?
Uchi: Most of the classes that we, that we did We didn't like, we're not sitting,
we didn't have computers in the classes.
So the teacher would write the code in the chalkboard and then we'll kind of copy the
code and just like try to like rewrite it.
And then our exams, coding exams were also on paper, right?
You write the programs on paper and then you try to run the programs in your head.
If it works and things like that.
And that's kind of how it was.
But I mean, we had a lab, we had a computer lab, but the lab wasn't open 247.
Uh, we just, it was like limited access to, to the lab.
Lawil: Do you believe that that, uh, increased your creativity with the code?
Uchi: Yeah, it did.
Yes, it did.
And it also helped me with like my, my journey here in Canada, because
even in Canadian universities, when I started, Uh, the exams, computer
science exams were still on paper.
Having done that in like high school in Nigeria in a more low level language
like Fortran was definitely like very, very helpful in being able to tackle
languages like Java and C in university.
Lawil: So Dan, from studying at the university, we're going to make
a slightly larger jump right now.
Because you ended up working for companies such as Shopify,
IBM, and then of course Coil.
Uchi: That's correct.
Lawil: And now with your money, it's almost as if you've been walking down
this path towards digital finance.
So what inspired you to pursue this direction, or was it all happenstance?
Uchi: Yeah, I think an experience I had that was very transformational for me
and that inspired me to pursue a career in fintech or the payment space is
when I was moving from, uh, Nigeria to Canada, I had some like US dollar cash
and I needed to get Canadian dollars.
So at the airport, I saw those like, uh, foreign exchange kiosks and
I approached them and I Asked to change the money to Canadian dollars.
I mean, they were happy that the customized experience was great.
But what I didn't realize is that the exchange rate was really, really bad.
And I lost about 30 percent of the US dollars exchanging it to, to Canadian,
just because of the exchange rate.
When I arrived in Canada, I was like, I could have just done this in the
bank, or I could just have created a USD account and things like that, but
I didn't have that knowledge, right?
And that's why since then, I've always wanted to create opportunities for others
not to be in the same situation, right?
And that's why I believe that financial inclusion starts with education, right?
So providing the right education and the right learning for everyone and
access to that knowledge, uh, is where.
financial inclusion stats.
Lawil: But if you would compare it to now, uh, the internet and digital connectivity.
Do you believe it has increased, uh, financial literacy?
Uchi: Oh, yeah.
Uh, connectivity has made financial inclusion, uh, definitely,
uh, more mainstream, right?
Many more people are financially included.
And that's why there's more that we can do with including, uh, more people
in the financial ecosystem, right?
Because many people have access to the internet right now.
And that's why I think We should start transitioning from financial inclusion
to economic empowerment, right?
Because I mean, with financial inclusion, the story has been providing access to
financial services, providing access to banking services, and things like that.
But I think we're We could do more than that.
And that's why Achieve Money, we are strong advocates of financial
inclusion, but even stronger advocates for economic empowerment.
And I mean, it's a movement that with economic empowerment, we want to provide
opportunities for people to earn.
And also increase their quality of life.
So platforms and products and services that help people connect to maybe job
opportunities, uh, connect to easy ways of getting paid for the value
they create, and also being able to spend that value, uh, locally.
So if they get paid, maybe by working a remote job for a.
For a, an employer outside their country, they should be able to easily access
those funds and then spend it later.
That's why I think financial inclusion should evolve too.
Lawil: You have given us examples of opportunities, but
if you look at the products.
Or look at your product within the Nigerian context,
what would the hurdles be?
Uchi: I mean, in the Nigerian context, specifically, Nigeria has the National
Interbank Settlement System, which is instant, probably faster than the U.
S.
banking system.
And how it works is that a user that has an account in a different bank can
send Money to a user in a different bank and it settles almost instantly.
And in the context of true money, how true money fits into that is that we're able
to move money from the U S or even Canada to Nigeria and other countries in minutes.
Right.
So a user can receive their money in their Nigerian bank account in
basically minutes, if not seconds, when that money is sent through TrueMoney.
And we see a couple of businesses using like the TrueMoney service, especially
for paying People that complete micro work or micro tasks for them, right?
They need to pay them on a regular basis.
And the funds could be anywhere between 100 to even 5, 000.
And they click a button on the TrueMoney platform instantly.
That money is available in the local currency.
Lawil: Oh, the ease of transaction is quite impressive.
If you think about it, it means that the ease of a transaction empowers a person.
Uchi: Yes.
So the way we see it is that.
It's more than just, uh, access to, uh, the money.
We're building, uh, a way for people to also be able to accept.
Jobs from other parts of the world, right?
So before, before true money, what they would do, especially use us in, in Nigeria
and some African countries, they would have to work with a friend to set up maybe
a PayPal account and things like that.
Because I mean, platforms like PayPal, sorry, don't, don't work in, uh, Nigeria
just because, uh, it's a different climate and things like, like that.
Right.
So they have to.
Go through a third party to set up an account and then before
they even start Before an employer can give them a job, right?
Because if you don't have the means to accept a payment from an employer,
in most cases, that employer doesn't want to get them on boarded, right?
So how true money helps with economic empowerment is providing assets to
financial services and, and tools and products that make it possible for
people to create value and from that value and also spend their earnings.
Lawil: Yes, I understand.
Um, you're giving them additional options, options for participation.
I mean, if you think about one of the barriers to entry, the costs.
Being so high.
Uchi: Oh yeah.
Yeah.
The costs, yeah, the fees, right.
So some people are paying anywhere between 10 percent to 30 percent of fees, right.
From like, there's a bank charge, there's a platform charge,
there's a foreign exchange losses.
So it's still a lot of fees for, for some.
Lawil: Actually, it's crazy to witness all of these incremental charges, but what I
find truly beautiful and quite remarkable is the evolution of the sector where we
are trying to address all of these things.
In which direction do you believe it will grow?
Uchi: Yeah, so I think, uh, one of the evolutions is the evolution
towards economic empowerment.
But more than that, I think AI has a lot of potential, like in the payment space.
When we look at the potential of AI in fintech and also payments, AI can
be used for things like, uh, Know your customer or know your business processes.
So kyb and kyb kyc process and also Ai can be used for transaction monitoring
and things like that And ai can also be used for digital identities.
So I think Going forward, a lot of fintechs would have
AI built in to them, right?
They will use this for verifying their users, for monitoring transactions,
for providing insights, richer and deeper insights to users, and also
for even financial inclusion, right?
So providing and recommending the best payment trail to use
for specific jurisdictions.
So these are opportunities that are coming.
That would start to evolve in the payment space.
And when we look at things like, uh, uh, IntelliJ, for example,
being able to connect multiple nodes and allow, allowing funds to flow
across, uh, those different nodes.
I think AI could play an important part also in the, in the ecosystem, especially
as people start creating AI agents.
Lawil: concerning to your connection to the IntelliJ protocol,
then how did you discover it?
Uchi: I found out about the IntelliJ protocol on Twitter on X, where
Sultan, he was an IntelliJ ambassador, he posted about it, and he was
talking about web monetization.
So I went online to read about it.
And then I was very interested.
So I just went on to build it.
A JavaScript library for web monetization.
So since then, I started just writing about web monetization and IntelliJ
and, uh, everything just aligned.
So I had the opportunity to, uh, join Coil as a developer relations
director and help to spread the word about IntelliJ for a few years.
Lawil: The, how do we, what is it, support the empowerment
of participants on the web?
Uchi: I think, uh, IntelliJ still has a lot of potential, especially, uh,
as an alternative to existing, uh, monetization options like ads, right?
So most of us don't like ads.
We don't want, we don't like those interruptions when we're.
watching a video or reading some content.
We want to be fully immersed in that content and enjoy the content
instead of having like distractions.
I know there are a lot of people that would be willing to pay a small fee
to remove that inconvenience, right?
So that's where web monetization shines.
Providing an option for people to still pay.
Pay for the value that they enjoy.
So the content that they, that they enjoy and, uh, more than just like streaming
payment, I think, uh, one other use case that web monetization could enable is.
Subscribing for a content.
So once I've made a payment for a content or a platform, I should be able to
like consume all the content provided by that platform or that creator.
So this could be done via tipping or via a one time monthly payment.
Right.
And if I have my web monetization enabled account, uh, when I'm
using it to view that content, the.
Website or the creator should know that I've already paid for it and then
should give me access to that content.
So I think that's more than streaming payment.
It's interesting, but the implementation might be more challenging.
I think having IntelliJ support one time payments and subscription
payments and tipping could increase adoption, basically, right?
I don't know if IntelliJ will be higher in that regard.
And then I have.
A way to go search for Microtags that I can complete to end that credit, right?
So like a platform that provides That ability to end and those earnings go
potentially to an interledger enabled wallet And then those interledger
enabled wallets are then able to allow the user that end those,
uh amount to consume content or to get access to other resources.
I mean, it could be content.
It could even be like buying a new product or service.
And that would, that would probably by open payment.
Lawil: Thank you for explaining open payments.
So you just mentioned Coil.
Um, I would love to hear more about your time there.
What did you focus on?
Uchi: So I was focusing on.
Uh, increasing the adoption of, uh, web monetization.
And, uh, at some point the focus shifted to interledger.
So exploring other use cases for interledger like, uh, tipping and things
like that, where the focus was on getting more developers and more platforms
to integrate web monetization and getting more websites, web monetization
enabled and, and things like that.
Lawil: And then concerning the financial service grants, um, what
is the direction you're taking there?
Uchi: So there are changes that we, we need to make.
So, uh, the current, uh, MVP implementation allowed people
to get a payment pointer, uh, but, uh, Chimoney primarily is a
B2B play or it's a B2B company.
So issuing payment pointers to individuals works.
However, they are not able to fund those payment pointers, right?
They're not able to add payment money to those payment pointers yet.
So what we're looking to do is IntelliJ are payment pointers that are KYC'd.
So we, we can Say that a user has a payment pointer, this payment pointer
is issued by Qmoney and this user has gone through like a compliance
process that Qmoney has done.
In addition to that, that payment pointer has the ability to accept money.
So users can load money to those payment pointer from their card,
from their bank, from their mobile money wallets and other options.
Powered by true Money's current infrastructure.
And also something we're looking to do is supporting like the e-commerce use case.
And so we're integrating with, uh, open payments, uh,
infrastructures to enable users to.
And also we're building a consent screen, so true money consent screen,
uh, such that a user shopping in a store or a user looking to tip
someone, uh, if that website.
All that platform has open payment, uh, integrated.
They would see a pay with IntelliJ option.
When they click pay with IntelliJ, they have taken to the TrueMoney consent
screen to grant access for funds to be moved from their TrueMoney wallets.
To the platform, right?
So that's something that is in our roadmap in the next day, six to 12 months.
And we're really excited to be able to bring that use case to
life within the IntelliJ ecosystem.
But I think a broader use case would be, uh, Enabling all Partners
on in the true money ecosystem.
So any partner that integrates true money's api And issues true money
wallets to their users or their users who have intelligent enabled, right?
So that's like a huge network effect Right, so it doesn't just
depend on true money, but also depend on like other partners.
So our small partners integrate and issue wallets Uh, that's kind of
how IntelliJ adoption, uh, grows via T money and T money partners.
So we're really excited for that use case.
Lawil: So if a, uh, what is it?
If another founder is listening to this podcast, how do you integrate?
Uchi: Yeah, that's a good one.
So for anyone looking to build a financial services, App, a FinTech remittance app,
a reward app that needs payment or a platform that needs to hold client funds.
Chimoney is definitely the solution to go with just because, uh, you
don't have to worry about compliance across different jurisdictions.
You don't have to worry about accounting, error cancellation.
Chimoney does all of that for you and provides infrastructure
for you to do that.
Right.
So, uh, to get started.
The Chimoney website, Chimoney.
io is a good place to start.
You can schedule a meeting with, uh, our solutions and engineering team.
And from there, we would have a conversation, learn about the use
case and then provide, uh, an option for you to build with a couple of
options and, and strategies to launch.
And we'll be able to like, uh, provide advice on how, what option to go with.
Lawil: Amazing.
And are there any participants actually from the, I keep on saying it's Nigeria
Hacks, but it's actually the name changed to World Innovation League.
Are they also building then?
Uchi: Yes, they are.
So we have on the treatment, there are two kinds of, uh, participants,
uh, dealing with stream money.
So the first one, uh, folks from the Nigeria Hacks and World
Innovation League community that now work at stream money, right?
So they started out as maybe Uh, intense, uh, true money, and now they
basically own and manage some of the infrastructure that we run at true money.
So that's the first use case.
So these are building solutions that other folks would launch with.
And then the second use case, uh, companies or founders.
That started out their career From one of the hackathons that we organized and
they are launching like fintech So a couple of them have gone on to raise a
a seed round one of them raised their 1.
5 million dollars in a seed round To launch their own fintech and they
are going strong and they are they are building that fintech with true
money If you are using TrueMoney Wallet as a service solution,
every wallet that it creates, every TrueMoney Wallet that it creates and
issues to their users would have a payment pointer tied to that wallet.
And their users would have IntelliJ also.
So it's, it's, uh, yeah, it's kind of a huge network effect.
And
Lawil: then while you're still researching or implementing soon the
e commerce use case, I almost want to say, what will be the first online
shop where you can test it or use it?
Uchi: So there are a couple of options that we're looking at.
So, uh, the first option.
It's a digital goods platform, the logistics for, for that, it's, it's less.
So people can buy a digital goods with their IntelliJ wallet.
Or to make a decision about which one we're going with, we're going to share.
And also something else that I think will be interesting is the Shopify play.
I worked at Shopify, so I still have some friends there.
And I think, yeah, IntelliJ for Shopify, for enabling open
payments for Shopify merchants.
And yeah, yeah.
Lawil: That's how they're listening.
Uchi: Yeah.
Imagine that all Shopify stores have pay with interledger enabled, uh, in them and
all users that have an interledger wallet, regardless of what country they are based
in, or regardless of what country or what platform they are on, can basically just
buy any product from any Shopify And then the merchant gets settled in the currency
that they've chosen, uh, to be settled in.
I think that would be a game changer.
Lawil: Because you're mentioning it, um, or you're calling it a game changer.
How important will this technology be?
So what values G Money planning on, uh, contributing to the
payment space or the fintech space?
Can you share more?
Uchi: So, yeah, today G Money, our focus is really to enable, uh, efficient cross
border payouts and also disbursements.
And we work mostly with emerging platforms, financial institutions,
creator communities, and we provide APIs and also platforms for them to do that.
But I mean, the future of all of this is.
An intersection of the community aspect, which is Nigel Hacks and
Africa Hacks Award Innovation League to like the payment space.
And there are a few opportunities that we see there.
So one of the opportunities that we see is.
Uh, using the community side of things to nurture talents that would help build the
future of payments within Chimoney, right?
So a lot of the team members that we have at, uh, Chimoney.
They are from the Nigel house community, right?
So I've worked with them at several hackathons and then I know like the
quality of their work, how motivated they are and things like that.
So we bring them on board to build with us at Tremoney.
And also one of the things we're seeing is Uh, positioning
Chimoney as an infrastructure for others to launch payment plays.
So, there's a company today that, uh, uses Chimoney to run all of their
cross border payment, uh, uh, solution.
So they collect payments from U.
S.
and Canadian users powered by Chimoney.
And then they are able to disburse to local currencies also using
Chimoney's, uh, payment trails, right?
So, we want to enable this use case.
Right.
For folks within the community aspect of things.
So Ninja hacks, Africa hacks, and the rest of them, and, uh, those that
want to launch startups, providing them with a FinTech in a box.
To basically get compliance, uh, KYC and KYB all within one
platform and to go live faster.
And that's like the direction that we're going.
That's
Lawil: extremely impressive.
Uchi: Yeah.
So it's, uh, both the several countries in Africa and also U.
S.
and Canada.
So the way it's structured is that we have entities In the U.
S.
Canada and some African countries, and we work with regulators in
some of these countries to get the appropriate licensing and compliance
in place, we're then able to provide.
solutions to other platforms to go live in this market without them
having to like, do all of the, all of the complicated work of getting their
own license and things like that.
So yeah, regulations and compliance is at the forefront
of everything we do at Shimony.
Lawil: Is that also, are part of the payment rules then also
done with the incorporation with the intellectual protocol?
Uchi: Oh yeah, so Yes, with the IntelliJ protocol, we are very,
very excited for about the work we're doing within this space.
So we're part of the phase one financial services grant.
So we're able to do some research and development and discovery into like
the compliance aspect of things and how IntelliJ fits into the ecosystem.
For the listeners, IntelliJ is an amazing technology, right?
Just connects so much and has the potential to unlock a lot of value for
different countries and also enhance financial inclusion, economic empowerment.
So we're very excited to be able to build, uh, with the IntelliJ technology.
So what we're doing specifically with IntelliJ is to connect all T Money
wallets to IntelliJ such that all T Money wallets would have an IntelliJ payment
pointer and we'll be able to IntelliJ.
They can.
Uh, use Gmoney wallets to pay for web monetization and also
pay for products and services.
And I think that's like where, like the future lies, being able to pay for
a product on an e commerce platform powered by OpenClement, regardless
of what country you're based in.
And this is all powered by IntelliJ.
Lawil: If you would compare your own journey with the evolution of the sector,
go back in time and think about the fact that you're now leading Gmoney.
Um, are there any successes or then learning moments you could share?
Uchi: Okay.
Yeah.
So on a personal side, I think, uh, resilience and grit, uh,
have been helpful for me, right?
Because the journey of bringing from Nigeria, it was like a great experience
growing up like family and all that.
And I felt like when I moved to Canada, it was just starting all over again.
Right.
So even as a student, and I, one of the most challenging times in my
journey was, uh, when there was a change in government in, in Nigeria.
So like I mentioned, I had a government funded scholarship and
when governments change, especially in some emerging markets, the policies
of the previous administration, there's kind of no continuity, right?
So in that case.
The new administration basically just shut down the scholarship and that
meant that the tuition and a lot of the promises and the everything that the
scholarship entailed was just in the drain and There was a time I was not
able to pay my tuition and I got a letter from the school that, uh, I had to stop
school and that meant that I would lose my student status and my visa and I
would be deported back, uh, to Nigeria.
Sorry, just remember one night I was just like so emotional and crying, but I
didn't want to just be in that situation.
So I wrote a very Thoughtful and, and, uh, uh, emotional letter to the school's
president explaining the situation.
And in that letter, I was able to kind of also provide a
solution of how I pay my tuition.
So I created a payment plan that I was going to pay like a certain
amount every two weeks and all that.
And that's how, I mean, thankful to the school, they approved it.
And I was able to continue like.
School and finish school.
And before graduation, I got an offer to work at Shopify.
So I mean, the point is that resilience and great and a staying power is
important in the journey, right?
And just being able to press on and continue.
Despite the challenges of life is something that I think has
helped me in my journey so far.
And then on the career side of things.
So my career has gone through like different phases, right?
So I started out, uh, doing computer science, uh, and psychology, but I, then
when I was in school, I branched out a little bit to do a user experience design.
So my degree was actually a combination of UI US design plus computer science.
And, but I ultimately didn't like working computer science.
I worked in like Uh, software engineering.
And I think the lesson there is that there's always going to be
like turns to different directions.
There are going to be distractions.
There are going to be challenges.
We might like explore some opportunities, but ultimately still.
Continuing and also knowing and staying true to like the career goal.
It's a super helpful.
And I mean, for payment, especially I, I started doing payments at,
uh, at a bank here in Canada.
So the Royal bank of Canada.
So 2016, 2017, they brought us on to work on.
Blockchain for client identity verification.
So we, we did that.
And then since then, I've just been in the payment space.
So, I mean, it's been a journey, right?
From, from Nigeria, where everyone wanted me to be a doctor, to going
hard on computer science, to branching out a little bit in user experience
design, going back to like hardcore programming and then financial
services, community and developer relations, and now being a founder.
Lawil: It's been a journey.
Um, I mean, it sounds as if you've gone through a very impressive journey as well.
And you actually developed a lot of skills that are necessary to now be a founder.
Uchi: Yeah, that's correct.
Yes.
Uh, being a founder, it's, uh, as you know, wearing multiple hats.
Right.
So that journey, uh, has really helped me to learn and explore multiple things.
So I'm able to like, Do marketing, I'm able to like
build and work on the product.
I'm able to like have like investor discussions, partner discussions,
sales, compliance, and things like that.
So just that full experience from the bank to a big tech to a small tech
company, all of those kind of helped me be the founder that I am today.
I think I'm really.
Really grateful for the opportunity to be on that journey.
Lawil: Could you tell us more about the plans of Chimoney
for this year and next year?
Like what can we look forward to?
Uchi: In the next 12 months, we're looking to launch a prototype of, uh,
the Chimoney IntelliJ enabled wallets.
So that's the phase two of the financial services grant.
So we're looking to go live with that.
And.
What that will unlock is anyone that has a Chimoney wallet will be able
to get an IntelliJ payment pointer.
They will be able to fund that IntelliJ wallet.
They can withdraw from that IntelliJ wallet to their bank
account in 130 countries.
They can use the payment pointer for web monetization, both accepting
funds to their wallet and also paying websites on web monetization.
So we're very excited about, uh, uh, that roadmap.
And on the general true money side, one of the major items in our road
map is to continue to expand our payment infrastructure and on board.
More companies to use our API.
So we have, uh, three companies currently integrating with us
and across different use cases.
So we want to get, uh, additional companies to launch fintechs and launch
reward platforms and launch payment plays, uh, with, with cheer monies.
Uh, infrastructure.
And I mean, the roadmap is robust.
It's exciting.
And there is some AI in there also.
Lawil: It's exciting for the AI now.
I want to know.
Because it's something that has always, um, triggered an extreme interest.
Um, ever since I became aware of this space.
Uh, the digital identity and everything.
Could you tell me more about that?
Uchi: I can speak to that actually, because, uh, before Cheer Money, I, I
worked in, in the digital identity space for a bit, uh, so there's something
in Canada called, uh, Verified Me.
Oh, it's now rebranded to government, government login.
And I was working on a team that built that, uh, in one of my previous roles.
And how that solution works was it's a blockchain powered.
identity solution that connects to bank accounts and allows users to
share the identity information and log in to government and other services
with their bank account credentials.
So it's pretty similar such that I can share my verified Information
to banks, to anyone that wants it.
So banks for mortgages and things like that.
That's the kind of solution that AI would, uh, also enable.
I mean, then it was more challenging to build something like that.
But with AI, potentially it could be simpler because when AI has
access to like, uh, the contests, uh, it can switch contests to
like a different, uh, use case.
So for example, if AI is connected to my bank, uh, contest, that information can
be used for making decision for lending or even for making, uh, decisions about
like mortgage and things like, like that.
So I think that, uh, yes, AI definitely has a lot of potential
in, uh, deployment space, and there are a lot of use cases that will be.
We'll be enabled with AI.
I don't know if that's helpful.
Lawil: Yeah, absolutely.
This was helpful.
I mean, we're all here to learn something.
Um, I do have one more question, which is very future related.
If you would think about a financially equitable future,
you can think of anything.
I mean, we try to avoid flying cars and everything.
Uh, but what would you wish for?
What would that be?
What would your future look like?
Uchi: Yeah.
So if I could think anything, yeah, anything that I could wish for in the
future, I still think the, there's lots of opportunity to improve
like the basic financial systems.
I would, uh, provide or connect all job opportunities onto one platform.
And, uh, Make it possible for people to complete a report on those jobs on the
platform and also get paid and also spend.
Within the platform.
So more of a universal currency of sorts, uh, a, an interoperable
currency that can be used for commerce, for employment, for food.
And, uh, making that currency accessible and available to anyone in any way.
I also like building the foundational layers, the foundational components
of a digital nation, right?
So that the.
The core of the payment is built, the core of like food and ordering food
is built, the core of like fashion and things like that are built in, right?
At least people can transfer between themselves and other people within
that nation or that platform are able to then build on top of the
core or the foundation, right?
So a, an infrastructure that allows people to build on top of it and
then get value when they build.
So it's more like a digital nation that is accessible, available.
Extendable and, uh, interoperable.
The, yeah, that's the, that's the vision.
Lawil: Other than that, actually, I just wanted to thank you for being
part of the future money podcast.
Uchi: Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
It was really fun and engaging and inspiring.
Lawil: Thank you for tuning into this episode of the future money podcast.
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