1 00:00:05,570 --> 00:00:12,480 Uchi: When I was moving from Nigeria to Canada, I had some like US dollar cash 2 00:00:12,540 --> 00:00:15,129 and I needed to get Canadian dollars. 3 00:00:15,900 --> 00:00:22,060 So at the airport, I saw those like a foreign exchange kiosks and I 4 00:00:22,060 --> 00:00:26,910 approached them and I, Asked to change the money to, to Canadian dollars. 5 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:28,310 I mean, they were happy. 6 00:00:28,310 --> 00:00:32,119 They, they customized experience was great, but what I didn't realize is that 7 00:00:32,460 --> 00:00:37,680 the exchange rate was really, really bad and I lost about 30 percent of the U S 8 00:00:37,729 --> 00:00:42,080 dollars exchanging it to, to Canadian, just because of the exchange rate. 9 00:00:42,389 --> 00:00:46,540 When I arrived in Canada, I was like, I could have just done this to the bank or 10 00:00:46,540 --> 00:00:49,129 I could just have created a USD account. 11 00:00:49,669 --> 00:00:52,309 And things like that, but I didn't have that knowledge, right? 12 00:00:52,370 --> 00:00:57,500 And that's why since then I've always wanted to create opportunities for others 13 00:00:57,519 --> 00:00:59,739 not to be in the same situation, right? 14 00:00:59,739 --> 00:01:03,120 And that's why I believe that financial inclusion starts with education. 15 00:01:09,090 --> 00:01:11,990 Lawil: And today I'm in conversation with Uche Uchebeke, a Nigerian 16 00:01:11,990 --> 00:01:14,090 Canadian technologist and entrepreneur. 17 00:01:14,210 --> 00:01:17,979 Uche shares his journey from Nigeria to studying in Canada, highlighting 18 00:01:17,990 --> 00:01:21,110 the importance of resilience, community building, and giving back. 19 00:01:21,619 --> 00:01:25,100 He discusses Founding Chimani, a platform for financial inclusion 20 00:01:25,110 --> 00:01:26,399 and economic empowerment. 21 00:01:26,980 --> 00:01:31,030 Aiming to enhance financial services, support digital identities, and of course 22 00:01:31,030 --> 00:01:32,780 the adoption of the intellectual protocol. 23 00:01:33,260 --> 00:01:35,860 Thank you for listening to another episode of the Future Money Podcast. 24 00:01:39,199 --> 00:01:41,200 So thank you, Chi, for being here. 25 00:01:41,479 --> 00:01:43,140 Uchi: Yeah, thanks, Lawil for having me. 26 00:01:43,246 --> 00:01:46,426 Really excited to be here, and uh, looking forward to, 27 00:01:46,571 --> 00:01:50,911 Lawil: Um, let's start with you. 28 00:01:50,991 --> 00:01:52,521 Could you tell us more about yourself? 29 00:01:52,921 --> 00:01:53,331 Uchi: Awesome. 30 00:01:53,341 --> 00:01:53,541 Yeah. 31 00:01:53,541 --> 00:01:53,941 Thank you. 32 00:01:53,941 --> 00:02:00,501 So my name is Uchi, I always like to say Uchi as in Gucci and, uh, um, 33 00:02:00,901 --> 00:02:07,751 Nigerian Canadian, before moving to Canada, I grew up in the Southern part 34 00:02:07,751 --> 00:02:10,051 of Nigeria, close to the Atlantic ocean. 35 00:02:10,681 --> 00:02:15,376 So growing up in Nigeria was, was a very, uh, rewarding and amazing experience. 36 00:02:15,386 --> 00:02:19,616 So I remember walking, uh, like five kilometers every day to 37 00:02:19,616 --> 00:02:24,696 school and then just coming back, having dinner with my family and, 38 00:02:24,696 --> 00:02:26,326 uh, watching the news at night. 39 00:02:26,376 --> 00:02:31,026 That was, uh, some of the best part of, uh, growing up family. 40 00:02:31,641 --> 00:02:38,251 And the journey from, from Nigeria to, to Canada was, was a very, 41 00:02:38,721 --> 00:02:42,131 uh, interesting one because I was already studying in Nigeria. 42 00:02:42,131 --> 00:02:48,271 So doing computer science, so, and I realized that I wasn't getting hands 43 00:02:48,271 --> 00:02:50,161 on experience or practical experience. 44 00:02:50,631 --> 00:02:52,766 So I decided that I was going to move to Canada. 45 00:02:53,206 --> 00:02:56,556 A different country to compete with the best of the best. 46 00:02:56,766 --> 00:02:59,756 And it was a long journey that took three years. 47 00:02:59,766 --> 00:03:04,216 So multiple, uh, scholarship exams and trying to get my 48 00:03:04,586 --> 00:03:06,606 university education fully funded. 49 00:03:06,606 --> 00:03:08,186 So after three years, I was able to. 50 00:03:08,906 --> 00:03:11,556 secure a scholarship and move to Canada to study. 51 00:03:11,996 --> 00:03:14,496 And I think probably one of the best decisions I made. 52 00:03:15,296 --> 00:03:17,306 Lawil: Are there a lot of scholarships around like if 53 00:03:17,306 --> 00:03:18,576 you're a young person in Nigeria? 54 00:03:18,576 --> 00:03:22,196 I know now it's a very booming scene, but if you look back 55 00:03:22,196 --> 00:03:24,456 into What is it your generation? 56 00:03:24,826 --> 00:03:26,526 How was it to enter that space? 57 00:03:27,466 --> 00:03:28,176 Uchi: Yeah, for sure. 58 00:03:28,256 --> 00:03:35,306 So when I this was like almost 11 years ago, uh when I moved to Canada, so They 59 00:03:35,316 --> 00:03:39,801 had more Scholarship opportunities, especially by different governments in 60 00:03:39,801 --> 00:03:45,611 Nigeria, and I guess in, in most cases is very competitive because Nigeria has about 61 00:03:45,611 --> 00:03:51,381 200 million people, and all of these are vying for these limited opportunities. 62 00:03:52,101 --> 00:03:56,061 And I mean, the goal of these programs, uh, was to. 63 00:03:57,501 --> 00:04:02,641 I suppose, or bring opportunities for more Nigerians to go outside and study 64 00:04:02,641 --> 00:04:04,721 and bring back the knowledge back home. 65 00:04:05,021 --> 00:04:08,441 So there are still opportunities like that, but now I feel like they are 66 00:04:08,441 --> 00:04:10,311 more limited and even more competitive. 67 00:04:11,131 --> 00:04:15,571 Lawil: But do these scholarships, uh, create a brain drain or, um, do 68 00:04:15,571 --> 00:04:18,101 citizens move back or return afterwards? 69 00:04:18,546 --> 00:04:24,586 Uchi: So for me specifically, after I moved to Canada and, uh, finished school 70 00:04:24,586 --> 00:04:29,621 and started working at Shopify and other companies, I realized that, There are 71 00:04:29,681 --> 00:04:33,911 also very smart people back home in Nigeria and the rest of Africa, right? 72 00:04:33,921 --> 00:04:36,781 But the challenge is that the opportunities are limited. 73 00:04:36,781 --> 00:04:40,481 So opportunities are not equally or evenly distributed across the world. 74 00:04:40,991 --> 00:04:44,821 So I decided to create something with some friends. 75 00:04:44,831 --> 00:04:49,491 So a community of developers and aspiring developers, right, and we're 76 00:04:49,491 --> 00:04:54,236 able to bring together young, Uh, and vibrant Africans across multiple 77 00:04:54,236 --> 00:04:58,376 African countries, and also young people of African descent in the U. 78 00:04:58,376 --> 00:04:58,506 S. 79 00:04:58,546 --> 00:05:02,566 and Canada, and form a community which we're able to grow to almost 80 00:05:02,746 --> 00:05:05,286 50K people in, in a few years. 81 00:05:05,446 --> 00:05:05,846 Lawil: Oh, wow. 82 00:05:05,846 --> 00:05:06,846 That's truly impressive. 83 00:05:06,966 --> 00:05:08,766 Just to clarify this to our listeners. 84 00:05:09,351 --> 00:05:13,901 Um, which is now discussing NINJAHAX, could you tell us more about this? 85 00:05:14,071 --> 00:05:14,741 Uchi: That's correct. 86 00:05:14,741 --> 00:05:14,971 Yes. 87 00:05:14,981 --> 00:05:15,901 So NINJAHAX. 88 00:05:15,981 --> 00:05:16,301 Yes. 89 00:05:16,891 --> 00:05:17,151 Yeah. 90 00:05:17,151 --> 00:05:21,771 So NINJAHAX started out in, uh, uh, 2018. 91 00:05:21,931 --> 00:05:26,681 So the goal was to organize events, conferences, and also bring job 92 00:05:26,681 --> 00:05:28,371 opportunities to the community members. 93 00:05:28,391 --> 00:05:28,671 Mm hmm. 94 00:05:29,206 --> 00:05:35,276 But the impact that we had was mostly on connecting folks to opportunities 95 00:05:35,306 --> 00:05:38,346 outside and within the African continent. 96 00:05:39,006 --> 00:05:41,906 And it has evolved since then. 97 00:05:41,926 --> 00:05:47,586 So we organized hackathons, conferences, career fairs, and things like that. 98 00:05:48,111 --> 00:05:50,431 Lawil: So what inspired you to create this? 99 00:05:51,391 --> 00:05:54,201 Uchi: So it was the journey that I, that I was on, right? 100 00:05:54,201 --> 00:06:00,921 So starting out in Nigeria, I knew I, when I watch like the news or when 101 00:06:00,921 --> 00:06:04,081 I see what's happening in that part of the world, there are lots of very 102 00:06:04,081 --> 00:06:07,791 smart people doing amazing things. 103 00:06:07,791 --> 00:06:13,611 And while Multiple African countries have really, really great opportunities. 104 00:06:13,651 --> 00:06:17,271 They are also like, uh, additional opportunities outside Africa. 105 00:06:17,901 --> 00:06:18,161 Right. 106 00:06:18,161 --> 00:06:21,361 So I was like, why don't we connect folks? 107 00:06:21,931 --> 00:06:28,021 Or create a bridge between aspiring people in tech in Africa to connect them 108 00:06:28,021 --> 00:06:30,121 to other parts of the, of the world. 109 00:06:30,171 --> 00:06:31,811 And that's what we, what we did. 110 00:06:32,051 --> 00:06:37,061 So originally the goal was to bring a hundred people together in a 111 00:06:37,061 --> 00:06:41,431 weekend to build and try to connect to the employers at the hackathon. 112 00:06:41,981 --> 00:06:48,111 We did the first one and we got about 600 people to attend the event and got 113 00:06:48,111 --> 00:06:52,071 a few partners to join, and then we could clearly realize that, you know, 114 00:06:52,501 --> 00:06:57,541 By bringing people together, just by having a space where people can connect, 115 00:06:57,911 --> 00:07:04,111 can meet a network, you just create, uh, an exponential impact, right? 116 00:07:04,111 --> 00:07:08,501 So community, I mean, now it's, it's popular and it's more known that 117 00:07:08,571 --> 00:07:11,581 starting with a community, it's, it's very, it's very impactful. 118 00:07:11,911 --> 00:07:17,931 And I mean, we did that and we're inspired by, Just how smart people in Africa are. 119 00:07:18,171 --> 00:07:25,341 And also the realization that Africans have the potential and also the 120 00:07:25,411 --> 00:07:29,321 ability to compete regardless of where in the world they find themselves. 121 00:07:29,851 --> 00:07:32,631 Lawil: It's amazing that you were able to build these bridges and 122 00:07:32,631 --> 00:07:35,531 that you're playing a pivotal role in the Nigerian ecosystem. 123 00:07:36,321 --> 00:07:36,521 Uchi: Yeah. 124 00:07:36,521 --> 00:07:37,281 Thank you so much. 125 00:07:37,281 --> 00:07:37,561 Yes. 126 00:07:37,571 --> 00:07:38,521 It's been a privilege. 127 00:07:38,521 --> 00:07:42,801 I feel, I think there's nothing more rewarding than just seeing 128 00:07:43,531 --> 00:07:50,261 people Get opportunities or land roles when, uh, from the community. 129 00:07:50,261 --> 00:07:50,541 Right. 130 00:07:50,541 --> 00:07:54,171 So the work that we're doing to connect people to opportunities, I think it's 131 00:07:54,191 --> 00:07:55,841 one of the most rewarding things ever. 132 00:07:56,141 --> 00:07:59,451 Lawil: I completely agree, but your career started differently. 133 00:08:00,091 --> 00:08:02,021 So what triggered you to pursue this path? 134 00:08:02,501 --> 00:08:03,701 Uchi: Yeah, that's a very good one. 135 00:08:03,701 --> 00:08:10,471 So I started getting interested in, in tech, uh, when I was in high school. 136 00:08:10,901 --> 00:08:16,481 So I remember vividly going to a cyber cafe for those who are not familiar. 137 00:08:18,871 --> 00:08:24,051 Yeah, a cyber cafe, it's like a co working space, but you, you 138 00:08:24,051 --> 00:08:25,851 buy time to use the internet. 139 00:08:26,411 --> 00:08:30,031 And, uh, the first time I went there, I was In high school. 140 00:08:30,351 --> 00:08:35,911 So I went to a cyber cafe, opened a Yahoo mail and started just 141 00:08:35,911 --> 00:08:37,021 playing around the internet. 142 00:08:37,051 --> 00:08:41,331 And once I realized that you could do a lot and learn a lot 143 00:08:41,561 --> 00:08:43,441 from a computer, I was sold. 144 00:08:43,971 --> 00:08:47,161 I told myself that this is the space I want to be in. 145 00:08:47,581 --> 00:08:52,891 And all of my focus went towards like just learning about computers. 146 00:08:53,171 --> 00:08:53,771 So after. 147 00:08:54,246 --> 00:08:57,566 Uh, when in high school, all my teachers and even my parents were 148 00:08:57,566 --> 00:09:01,856 saying I should like focus on being a doctor and, and things like that, 149 00:09:01,916 --> 00:09:04,246 but I knew I didn't want to do that. 150 00:09:04,246 --> 00:09:05,376 So I just kind of said no. 151 00:09:05,376 --> 00:09:08,856 And it was, I mean, it was a very challenging situation to say no 152 00:09:08,856 --> 00:09:10,976 to parents and also teachers. 153 00:09:11,246 --> 00:09:12,656 But I, I, I focused on it. 154 00:09:12,656 --> 00:09:12,946 Yeah. 155 00:09:12,946 --> 00:09:17,108 Lawil: I can only imagine being African myself, understanding the culture. 156 00:09:17,108 --> 00:09:22,536 I can only imagine what type of challenges must have been for your parents. 157 00:09:23,156 --> 00:09:25,006 There's being a completely new field for them. 158 00:09:25,156 --> 00:09:29,536 Uchi: Because my dad, right, when I was growing up, he said he saw a vision that 159 00:09:29,936 --> 00:09:31,646 there was like a doctor beside my name. 160 00:09:31,646 --> 00:09:32,546 It's 161 00:09:32,546 --> 00:09:34,906 Lawil: a beautiful vision though. 162 00:09:34,906 --> 00:09:38,166 So 163 00:09:38,166 --> 00:09:42,331 Uchi: So Me now deciding that I didn't want to be a doctor was like 164 00:09:42,331 --> 00:09:49,651 a huge conflict at home right then But ultimately they supported my my 165 00:09:49,651 --> 00:09:53,761 decision despite the fact that I was still like a kid then So they supported 166 00:09:53,761 --> 00:09:58,736 my decision and they saw that That's what I wanted and my first programming 167 00:09:58,736 --> 00:10:02,036 language was actually basic and Fortran. 168 00:10:02,046 --> 00:10:04,396 So I was learning how to code on paper, right? 169 00:10:04,396 --> 00:10:06,166 So I didn't really have a laptop or a computer. 170 00:10:06,176 --> 00:10:10,966 So all of my coding, uh, in high school was just like writing 171 00:10:10,966 --> 00:10:12,366 code on paper, pen and paper. 172 00:10:12,756 --> 00:10:16,521 And I mean, that was like a very good, uh, experience. 173 00:10:16,521 --> 00:10:21,601 And it taught me like resilience and just being able to create 174 00:10:21,601 --> 00:10:22,601 something out of nothing. 175 00:10:23,151 --> 00:10:23,951 Lawil: I completely understand. 176 00:10:24,161 --> 00:10:26,711 So it wasn't, you weren't able then to use kind of like what is it the 177 00:10:26,711 --> 00:10:29,551 cyber cafe to practice more or? 178 00:10:30,191 --> 00:10:34,331 Uchi: Most of the classes that we, that we did We didn't like, we're not sitting, 179 00:10:34,411 --> 00:10:36,971 we didn't have computers in the classes. 180 00:10:37,071 --> 00:10:42,511 So the teacher would write the code in the chalkboard and then we'll kind of copy the 181 00:10:42,511 --> 00:10:45,261 code and just like try to like rewrite it. 182 00:10:45,261 --> 00:10:48,661 And then our exams, coding exams were also on paper, right? 183 00:10:48,661 --> 00:10:52,121 You write the programs on paper and then you try to run the programs in your head. 184 00:10:52,761 --> 00:10:54,271 If it works and things like that. 185 00:10:54,566 --> 00:10:55,566 And that's kind of how it was. 186 00:10:55,606 --> 00:11:00,446 But I mean, we had a lab, we had a computer lab, but the lab wasn't open 247. 187 00:11:00,686 --> 00:11:03,756 Uh, we just, it was like limited access to, to the lab. 188 00:11:03,926 --> 00:11:06,936 Lawil: Do you believe that that, uh, increased your creativity with the code? 189 00:11:07,836 --> 00:11:08,796 Uchi: Yeah, it did. 190 00:11:08,796 --> 00:11:09,826 Yes, it did. 191 00:11:09,896 --> 00:11:14,086 And it also helped me with like my, my journey here in Canada, because 192 00:11:14,456 --> 00:11:18,666 even in Canadian universities, when I started, Uh, the exams, computer 193 00:11:18,696 --> 00:11:20,486 science exams were still on paper. 194 00:11:20,926 --> 00:11:26,346 Having done that in like high school in Nigeria in a more low level language 195 00:11:26,356 --> 00:11:32,066 like Fortran was definitely like very, very helpful in being able to tackle 196 00:11:32,066 --> 00:11:36,046 languages like Java and C in university. 197 00:11:36,376 --> 00:11:39,076 Lawil: So Dan, from studying at the university, we're going to make 198 00:11:39,076 --> 00:11:40,766 a slightly larger jump right now. 199 00:11:41,156 --> 00:11:44,196 Because you ended up working for companies such as Shopify, 200 00:11:44,246 --> 00:11:45,876 IBM, and then of course Coil. 201 00:11:46,176 --> 00:11:46,546 Uchi: That's correct. 202 00:11:46,616 --> 00:11:49,626 Lawil: And now with your money, it's almost as if you've been walking down 203 00:11:49,626 --> 00:11:52,036 this path towards digital finance. 204 00:11:52,606 --> 00:11:56,976 So what inspired you to pursue this direction, or was it all happenstance? 205 00:11:57,376 --> 00:12:01,506 Uchi: Yeah, I think an experience I had that was very transformational for me 206 00:12:02,046 --> 00:12:07,866 and that inspired me to pursue a career in fintech or the payment space is 207 00:12:08,546 --> 00:12:15,486 when I was moving from, uh, Nigeria to Canada, I had some like US dollar cash 208 00:12:15,526 --> 00:12:18,186 and I needed to get Canadian dollars. 209 00:12:18,876 --> 00:12:24,946 So at the airport, I saw those like, uh, foreign exchange kiosks and 210 00:12:24,946 --> 00:12:29,946 I approached them and I Asked to change the money to Canadian dollars. 211 00:12:30,476 --> 00:12:33,476 I mean, they were happy that the customized experience was great. 212 00:12:33,726 --> 00:12:37,506 But what I didn't realize is that the exchange rate was really, really bad. 213 00:12:37,826 --> 00:12:43,526 And I lost about 30 percent of the US dollars exchanging it to, to Canadian, 214 00:12:43,796 --> 00:12:45,086 just because of the exchange rate. 215 00:12:45,356 --> 00:12:48,851 When I arrived in Canada, I was like, I could have just done this in the 216 00:12:48,861 --> 00:12:53,471 bank, or I could just have created a USD account and things like that, but 217 00:12:53,471 --> 00:12:55,301 I didn't have that knowledge, right? 218 00:12:55,341 --> 00:13:00,471 And that's why since then, I've always wanted to create opportunities for others 219 00:13:00,511 --> 00:13:02,721 not to be in the same situation, right? 220 00:13:02,721 --> 00:13:06,811 And that's why I believe that financial inclusion starts with education, right? 221 00:13:06,811 --> 00:13:12,761 So providing the right education and the right learning for everyone and 222 00:13:12,911 --> 00:13:15,031 access to that knowledge, uh, is where. 223 00:13:15,346 --> 00:13:16,666 financial inclusion stats. 224 00:13:16,826 --> 00:13:21,426 Lawil: But if you would compare it to now, uh, the internet and digital connectivity. 225 00:13:21,756 --> 00:13:24,096 Do you believe it has increased, uh, financial literacy? 226 00:13:24,556 --> 00:13:25,006 Uchi: Oh, yeah. 227 00:13:25,416 --> 00:13:30,066 Uh, connectivity has made financial inclusion, uh, definitely, 228 00:13:30,846 --> 00:13:32,616 uh, more mainstream, right? 229 00:13:32,666 --> 00:13:35,096 Many more people are financially included. 230 00:13:35,486 --> 00:13:40,636 And that's why there's more that we can do with including, uh, more people 231 00:13:40,636 --> 00:13:42,146 in the financial ecosystem, right? 232 00:13:42,146 --> 00:13:45,246 Because many people have access to the internet right now. 233 00:13:45,296 --> 00:13:49,841 And that's why I think We should start transitioning from financial inclusion 234 00:13:49,891 --> 00:13:52,391 to economic empowerment, right? 235 00:13:52,391 --> 00:13:58,311 Because I mean, with financial inclusion, the story has been providing access to 236 00:13:58,311 --> 00:14:02,131 financial services, providing access to banking services, and things like that. 237 00:14:02,521 --> 00:14:05,171 But I think we're We could do more than that. 238 00:14:05,211 --> 00:14:09,191 And that's why Achieve Money, we are strong advocates of financial 239 00:14:09,191 --> 00:14:13,131 inclusion, but even stronger advocates for economic empowerment. 240 00:14:13,201 --> 00:14:17,951 And I mean, it's a movement that with economic empowerment, we want to provide 241 00:14:17,951 --> 00:14:19,611 opportunities for people to earn. 242 00:14:20,501 --> 00:14:22,371 And also increase their quality of life. 243 00:14:22,541 --> 00:14:28,411 So platforms and products and services that help people connect to maybe job 244 00:14:28,411 --> 00:14:33,031 opportunities, uh, connect to easy ways of getting paid for the value 245 00:14:33,031 --> 00:14:37,461 they create, and also being able to spend that value, uh, locally. 246 00:14:37,501 --> 00:14:41,626 So if they get paid, maybe by working a remote job for a. 247 00:14:42,086 --> 00:14:46,316 For a, an employer outside their country, they should be able to easily access 248 00:14:46,346 --> 00:14:47,676 those funds and then spend it later. 249 00:14:47,886 --> 00:14:50,146 That's why I think financial inclusion should evolve too. 250 00:14:50,596 --> 00:14:52,866 Lawil: You have given us examples of opportunities, but 251 00:14:52,866 --> 00:14:54,656 if you look at the products. 252 00:14:55,676 --> 00:14:58,056 Or look at your product within the Nigerian context, 253 00:14:58,306 --> 00:14:59,886 what would the hurdles be? 254 00:15:00,266 --> 00:15:04,776 Uchi: I mean, in the Nigerian context, specifically, Nigeria has the National 255 00:15:04,776 --> 00:15:08,606 Interbank Settlement System, which is instant, probably faster than the U. 256 00:15:08,606 --> 00:15:09,056 S. 257 00:15:09,186 --> 00:15:09,996 banking system. 258 00:15:09,996 --> 00:15:14,586 And how it works is that a user that has an account in a different bank can 259 00:15:14,586 --> 00:15:19,606 send Money to a user in a different bank and it settles almost instantly. 260 00:15:20,056 --> 00:15:24,396 And in the context of true money, how true money fits into that is that we're able 261 00:15:24,396 --> 00:15:32,016 to move money from the U S or even Canada to Nigeria and other countries in minutes. 262 00:15:32,716 --> 00:15:33,106 Right. 263 00:15:33,106 --> 00:15:39,596 So a user can receive their money in their Nigerian bank account in 264 00:15:39,706 --> 00:15:44,136 basically minutes, if not seconds, when that money is sent through TrueMoney. 265 00:15:44,756 --> 00:15:50,086 And we see a couple of businesses using like the TrueMoney service, especially 266 00:15:50,086 --> 00:15:55,031 for paying People that complete micro work or micro tasks for them, right? 267 00:15:55,031 --> 00:15:56,771 They need to pay them on a regular basis. 268 00:15:57,061 --> 00:16:01,701 And the funds could be anywhere between 100 to even 5, 000. 269 00:16:01,701 --> 00:16:04,171 And they click a button on the TrueMoney platform instantly. 270 00:16:04,571 --> 00:16:07,081 That money is available in the local currency. 271 00:16:07,481 --> 00:16:09,541 Lawil: Oh, the ease of transaction is quite impressive. 272 00:16:09,961 --> 00:16:16,501 If you think about it, it means that the ease of a transaction empowers a person. 273 00:16:16,831 --> 00:16:17,221 Uchi: Yes. 274 00:16:17,531 --> 00:16:19,591 So the way we see it is that. 275 00:16:20,066 --> 00:16:23,636 It's more than just, uh, access to, uh, the money. 276 00:16:24,256 --> 00:16:29,446 We're building, uh, a way for people to also be able to accept. 277 00:16:29,921 --> 00:16:33,311 Jobs from other parts of the world, right? 278 00:16:33,311 --> 00:16:39,991 So before, before true money, what they would do, especially use us in, in Nigeria 279 00:16:39,991 --> 00:16:45,101 and some African countries, they would have to work with a friend to set up maybe 280 00:16:45,101 --> 00:16:46,571 a PayPal account and things like that. 281 00:16:46,571 --> 00:16:52,721 Because I mean, platforms like PayPal, sorry, don't, don't work in, uh, Nigeria 282 00:16:52,761 --> 00:16:57,041 just because, uh, it's a different climate and things like, like that. 283 00:16:57,371 --> 00:16:57,601 Right. 284 00:16:57,601 --> 00:16:58,271 So they have to. 285 00:16:58,691 --> 00:17:01,811 Go through a third party to set up an account and then before 286 00:17:01,811 --> 00:17:05,171 they even start Before an employer can give them a job, right? 287 00:17:05,171 --> 00:17:10,041 Because if you don't have the means to accept a payment from an employer, 288 00:17:10,101 --> 00:17:13,661 in most cases, that employer doesn't want to get them on boarded, right? 289 00:17:13,661 --> 00:17:18,241 So how true money helps with economic empowerment is providing assets to 290 00:17:18,251 --> 00:17:23,971 financial services and, and tools and products that make it possible for 291 00:17:23,971 --> 00:17:28,061 people to create value and from that value and also spend their earnings. 292 00:17:28,991 --> 00:17:30,051 Lawil: Yes, I understand. 293 00:17:30,301 --> 00:17:34,461 Um, you're giving them additional options, options for participation. 294 00:17:34,781 --> 00:17:37,441 I mean, if you think about one of the barriers to entry, the costs. 295 00:17:37,851 --> 00:17:39,001 Being so high. 296 00:17:39,191 --> 00:17:39,691 Uchi: Oh yeah. 297 00:17:39,831 --> 00:17:40,001 Yeah. 298 00:17:40,001 --> 00:17:41,701 The costs, yeah, the fees, right. 299 00:17:41,711 --> 00:17:47,991 So some people are paying anywhere between 10 percent to 30 percent of fees, right. 300 00:17:48,391 --> 00:17:51,811 From like, there's a bank charge, there's a platform charge, 301 00:17:51,811 --> 00:17:53,711 there's a foreign exchange losses. 302 00:17:53,721 --> 00:17:56,221 So it's still a lot of fees for, for some. 303 00:17:56,661 --> 00:18:00,941 Lawil: Actually, it's crazy to witness all of these incremental charges, but what I 304 00:18:00,941 --> 00:18:05,841 find truly beautiful and quite remarkable is the evolution of the sector where we 305 00:18:05,841 --> 00:18:08,291 are trying to address all of these things. 306 00:18:08,746 --> 00:18:10,556 In which direction do you believe it will grow? 307 00:18:11,936 --> 00:18:17,916 Uchi: Yeah, so I think, uh, one of the evolutions is the evolution 308 00:18:17,916 --> 00:18:20,166 towards economic empowerment. 309 00:18:20,176 --> 00:18:25,956 But more than that, I think AI has a lot of potential, like in the payment space. 310 00:18:26,546 --> 00:18:32,096 When we look at the potential of AI in fintech and also payments, AI can 311 00:18:32,096 --> 00:18:37,906 be used for things like, uh, Know your customer or know your business processes. 312 00:18:37,916 --> 00:18:44,146 So kyb and kyb kyc process and also Ai can be used for transaction monitoring 313 00:18:44,856 --> 00:18:49,906 and things like that And ai can also be used for digital identities. 314 00:18:50,076 --> 00:18:55,716 So I think Going forward, a lot of fintechs would have 315 00:18:56,506 --> 00:18:59,386 AI built in to them, right? 316 00:18:59,466 --> 00:19:03,916 They will use this for verifying their users, for monitoring transactions, 317 00:19:04,176 --> 00:19:09,346 for providing insights, richer and deeper insights to users, and also 318 00:19:09,496 --> 00:19:11,426 for even financial inclusion, right? 319 00:19:11,616 --> 00:19:15,616 So providing and recommending the best payment trail to use 320 00:19:15,656 --> 00:19:17,326 for specific jurisdictions. 321 00:19:17,646 --> 00:19:19,576 So these are opportunities that are coming. 322 00:19:20,026 --> 00:19:23,946 That would start to evolve in the payment space. 323 00:19:23,986 --> 00:19:27,706 And when we look at things like, uh, uh, IntelliJ, for example, 324 00:19:27,716 --> 00:19:32,446 being able to connect multiple nodes and allow, allowing funds to flow 325 00:19:32,526 --> 00:19:34,436 across, uh, those different nodes. 326 00:19:34,676 --> 00:19:40,756 I think AI could play an important part also in the, in the ecosystem, especially 327 00:19:41,156 --> 00:19:44,536 as people start creating AI agents. 328 00:19:46,456 --> 00:19:49,186 Lawil: concerning to your connection to the IntelliJ protocol, 329 00:19:49,226 --> 00:19:50,566 then how did you discover it? 330 00:19:50,816 --> 00:19:56,346 Uchi: I found out about the IntelliJ protocol on Twitter on X, where 331 00:19:56,346 --> 00:20:02,576 Sultan, he was an IntelliJ ambassador, he posted about it, and he was 332 00:20:02,576 --> 00:20:04,016 talking about web monetization. 333 00:20:04,026 --> 00:20:08,516 So I went online to read about it. 334 00:20:08,576 --> 00:20:10,946 And then I was very interested. 335 00:20:10,946 --> 00:20:12,276 So I just went on to build it. 336 00:20:13,366 --> 00:20:17,606 A JavaScript library for web monetization. 337 00:20:18,256 --> 00:20:23,506 So since then, I started just writing about web monetization and IntelliJ 338 00:20:23,586 --> 00:20:26,146 and, uh, everything just aligned. 339 00:20:26,236 --> 00:20:32,126 So I had the opportunity to, uh, join Coil as a developer relations 340 00:20:32,406 --> 00:20:39,406 director and help to spread the word about IntelliJ for a few years. 341 00:20:40,271 --> 00:20:43,341 Lawil: The, how do we, what is it, support the empowerment 342 00:20:43,371 --> 00:20:44,671 of participants on the web? 343 00:20:44,931 --> 00:20:51,411 Uchi: I think, uh, IntelliJ still has a lot of potential, especially, uh, 344 00:20:51,481 --> 00:20:59,821 as an alternative to existing, uh, monetization options like ads, right? 345 00:20:59,821 --> 00:21:02,701 So most of us don't like ads. 346 00:21:02,771 --> 00:21:05,771 We don't want, we don't like those interruptions when we're. 347 00:21:06,351 --> 00:21:09,081 watching a video or reading some content. 348 00:21:09,141 --> 00:21:13,561 We want to be fully immersed in that content and enjoy the content 349 00:21:13,621 --> 00:21:16,031 instead of having like distractions. 350 00:21:16,741 --> 00:21:20,911 I know there are a lot of people that would be willing to pay a small fee 351 00:21:21,791 --> 00:21:24,251 to remove that inconvenience, right? 352 00:21:24,251 --> 00:21:27,321 So that's where web monetization shines. 353 00:21:27,821 --> 00:21:30,871 Providing an option for people to still pay. 354 00:21:31,421 --> 00:21:33,981 Pay for the value that they enjoy. 355 00:21:33,981 --> 00:21:39,851 So the content that they, that they enjoy and, uh, more than just like streaming 356 00:21:39,901 --> 00:21:47,501 payment, I think, uh, one other use case that web monetization could enable is. 357 00:21:47,881 --> 00:21:49,631 Subscribing for a content. 358 00:21:49,631 --> 00:21:54,781 So once I've made a payment for a content or a platform, I should be able to 359 00:21:54,781 --> 00:21:59,911 like consume all the content provided by that platform or that creator. 360 00:22:00,321 --> 00:22:05,581 So this could be done via tipping or via a one time monthly payment. 361 00:22:06,111 --> 00:22:06,501 Right. 362 00:22:06,571 --> 00:22:12,551 And if I have my web monetization enabled account, uh, when I'm 363 00:22:12,551 --> 00:22:14,451 using it to view that content, the. 364 00:22:14,811 --> 00:22:19,941 Website or the creator should know that I've already paid for it and then 365 00:22:19,971 --> 00:22:22,141 should give me access to that content. 366 00:22:22,151 --> 00:22:24,691 So I think that's more than streaming payment. 367 00:22:24,991 --> 00:22:30,631 It's interesting, but the implementation might be more challenging. 368 00:22:30,691 --> 00:22:36,751 I think having IntelliJ support one time payments and subscription 369 00:22:36,751 --> 00:22:40,241 payments and tipping could increase adoption, basically, right? 370 00:22:40,241 --> 00:22:44,061 I don't know if IntelliJ will be higher in that regard. 371 00:22:44,341 --> 00:22:45,151 And then I have. 372 00:22:45,806 --> 00:22:51,766 A way to go search for Microtags that I can complete to end that credit, right? 373 00:22:51,916 --> 00:22:58,776 So like a platform that provides That ability to end and those earnings go 374 00:22:58,836 --> 00:23:02,396 potentially to an interledger enabled wallet And then those interledger 375 00:23:02,396 --> 00:23:09,326 enabled wallets are then able to allow the user that end those, 376 00:23:09,326 --> 00:23:14,596 uh amount to consume content or to get access to other resources. 377 00:23:14,596 --> 00:23:15,486 I mean, it could be content. 378 00:23:15,486 --> 00:23:20,496 It could even be like buying a new product or service. 379 00:23:20,866 --> 00:23:23,266 And that would, that would probably by open payment. 380 00:23:23,786 --> 00:23:25,436 Lawil: Thank you for explaining open payments. 381 00:23:25,446 --> 00:23:27,136 So you just mentioned Coil. 382 00:23:27,706 --> 00:23:30,406 Um, I would love to hear more about your time there. 383 00:23:30,466 --> 00:23:31,546 What did you focus on? 384 00:23:31,806 --> 00:23:33,686 Uchi: So I was focusing on. 385 00:23:34,546 --> 00:23:37,806 Uh, increasing the adoption of, uh, web monetization. 386 00:23:37,836 --> 00:23:42,676 And, uh, at some point the focus shifted to interledger. 387 00:23:42,676 --> 00:23:48,456 So exploring other use cases for interledger like, uh, tipping and things 388 00:23:48,456 --> 00:23:52,676 like that, where the focus was on getting more developers and more platforms 389 00:23:52,686 --> 00:23:58,566 to integrate web monetization and getting more websites, web monetization 390 00:23:58,566 --> 00:23:59,806 enabled and, and things like that. 391 00:24:00,276 --> 00:24:04,436 Lawil: And then concerning the financial service grants, um, what 392 00:24:04,436 --> 00:24:06,016 is the direction you're taking there? 393 00:24:06,206 --> 00:24:09,186 Uchi: So there are changes that we, we need to make. 394 00:24:09,186 --> 00:24:14,996 So, uh, the current, uh, MVP implementation allowed people 395 00:24:14,996 --> 00:24:21,146 to get a payment pointer, uh, but, uh, Chimoney primarily is a 396 00:24:21,166 --> 00:24:23,826 B2B play or it's a B2B company. 397 00:24:24,206 --> 00:24:28,216 So issuing payment pointers to individuals works. 398 00:24:28,326 --> 00:24:32,756 However, they are not able to fund those payment pointers, right? 399 00:24:33,006 --> 00:24:36,356 They're not able to add payment money to those payment pointers yet. 400 00:24:36,616 --> 00:24:42,636 So what we're looking to do is IntelliJ are payment pointers that are KYC'd. 401 00:24:42,766 --> 00:24:48,396 So we, we can Say that a user has a payment pointer, this payment pointer 402 00:24:48,396 --> 00:24:52,176 is issued by Qmoney and this user has gone through like a compliance 403 00:24:52,206 --> 00:24:54,576 process that Qmoney has done. 404 00:24:54,696 --> 00:25:00,036 In addition to that, that payment pointer has the ability to accept money. 405 00:25:00,096 --> 00:25:04,996 So users can load money to those payment pointer from their card, 406 00:25:05,056 --> 00:25:08,866 from their bank, from their mobile money wallets and other options. 407 00:25:09,266 --> 00:25:11,546 Powered by true Money's current infrastructure. 408 00:25:11,896 --> 00:25:16,366 And also something we're looking to do is supporting like the e-commerce use case. 409 00:25:16,666 --> 00:25:20,796 And so we're integrating with, uh, open payments, uh, 410 00:25:20,796 --> 00:25:24,606 infrastructures to enable users to. 411 00:25:24,666 --> 00:25:28,116 And also we're building a consent screen, so true money consent screen, 412 00:25:28,596 --> 00:25:33,156 uh, such that a user shopping in a store or a user looking to tip 413 00:25:33,156 --> 00:25:35,596 someone, uh, if that website. 414 00:25:36,091 --> 00:25:39,761 All that platform has open payment, uh, integrated. 415 00:25:40,091 --> 00:25:43,121 They would see a pay with IntelliJ option. 416 00:25:43,701 --> 00:25:47,941 When they click pay with IntelliJ, they have taken to the TrueMoney consent 417 00:25:47,941 --> 00:25:53,321 screen to grant access for funds to be moved from their TrueMoney wallets. 418 00:25:53,581 --> 00:25:55,331 To the platform, right? 419 00:25:55,331 --> 00:25:59,591 So that's something that is in our roadmap in the next day, six to 12 months. 420 00:25:59,871 --> 00:26:03,831 And we're really excited to be able to bring that use case to 421 00:26:03,831 --> 00:26:06,931 life within the IntelliJ ecosystem. 422 00:26:07,271 --> 00:26:13,361 But I think a broader use case would be, uh, Enabling all Partners 423 00:26:13,361 --> 00:26:14,781 on in the true money ecosystem. 424 00:26:14,781 --> 00:26:19,791 So any partner that integrates true money's api And issues true money 425 00:26:19,791 --> 00:26:23,921 wallets to their users or their users who have intelligent enabled, right? 426 00:26:23,921 --> 00:26:28,091 So that's like a huge network effect Right, so it doesn't just 427 00:26:28,091 --> 00:26:31,791 depend on true money, but also depend on like other partners. 428 00:26:31,831 --> 00:26:35,556 So our small partners integrate and issue wallets Uh, that's kind of 429 00:26:35,556 --> 00:26:39,726 how IntelliJ adoption, uh, grows via T money and T money partners. 430 00:26:39,746 --> 00:26:41,386 So we're really excited for that use case. 431 00:26:41,956 --> 00:26:43,456 Lawil: So if a, uh, what is it? 432 00:26:43,496 --> 00:26:46,506 If another founder is listening to this podcast, how do you integrate? 433 00:26:47,016 --> 00:26:47,856 Uchi: Yeah, that's a good one. 434 00:26:47,856 --> 00:26:54,901 So for anyone looking to build a financial services, App, a FinTech remittance app, 435 00:26:54,951 --> 00:27:02,041 a reward app that needs payment or a platform that needs to hold client funds. 436 00:27:02,431 --> 00:27:06,721 Chimoney is definitely the solution to go with just because, uh, you 437 00:27:06,721 --> 00:27:10,911 don't have to worry about compliance across different jurisdictions. 438 00:27:11,231 --> 00:27:13,511 You don't have to worry about accounting, error cancellation. 439 00:27:13,511 --> 00:27:16,511 Chimoney does all of that for you and provides infrastructure 440 00:27:16,511 --> 00:27:17,301 for you to do that. 441 00:27:17,811 --> 00:27:18,101 Right. 442 00:27:18,101 --> 00:27:20,221 So, uh, to get started. 443 00:27:20,476 --> 00:27:22,216 The Chimoney website, Chimoney. 444 00:27:22,266 --> 00:27:23,986 io is a good place to start. 445 00:27:23,986 --> 00:27:28,536 You can schedule a meeting with, uh, our solutions and engineering team. 446 00:27:28,846 --> 00:27:32,756 And from there, we would have a conversation, learn about the use 447 00:27:32,756 --> 00:27:37,766 case and then provide, uh, an option for you to build with a couple of 448 00:27:37,896 --> 00:27:40,996 options and, and strategies to launch. 449 00:27:41,046 --> 00:27:46,696 And we'll be able to like, uh, provide advice on how, what option to go with. 450 00:27:47,636 --> 00:27:48,156 Lawil: Amazing. 451 00:27:48,326 --> 00:27:52,076 And are there any participants actually from the, I keep on saying it's Nigeria 452 00:27:52,076 --> 00:27:54,996 Hacks, but it's actually the name changed to World Innovation League. 453 00:27:55,426 --> 00:27:56,676 Are they also building then? 454 00:27:57,136 --> 00:27:58,096 Uchi: Yes, they are. 455 00:27:58,096 --> 00:28:04,486 So we have on the treatment, there are two kinds of, uh, participants, 456 00:28:04,826 --> 00:28:06,476 uh, dealing with stream money. 457 00:28:06,816 --> 00:28:10,326 So the first one, uh, folks from the Nigeria Hacks and World 458 00:28:10,326 --> 00:28:14,996 Innovation League community that now work at stream money, right? 459 00:28:14,996 --> 00:28:20,506 So they started out as maybe Uh, intense, uh, true money, and now they 460 00:28:20,526 --> 00:28:25,166 basically own and manage some of the infrastructure that we run at true money. 461 00:28:25,206 --> 00:28:26,446 So that's the first use case. 462 00:28:26,686 --> 00:28:30,616 So these are building solutions that other folks would launch with. 463 00:28:30,886 --> 00:28:33,946 And then the second use case, uh, companies or founders. 464 00:28:34,761 --> 00:28:39,291 That started out their career From one of the hackathons that we organized and 465 00:28:39,291 --> 00:28:43,181 they are launching like fintech So a couple of them have gone on to raise a 466 00:28:43,721 --> 00:28:46,741 a seed round one of them raised their 1. 467 00:28:46,741 --> 00:28:52,051 5 million dollars in a seed round To launch their own fintech and they 468 00:28:52,051 --> 00:28:55,421 are going strong and they are they are building that fintech with true 469 00:28:55,491 --> 00:28:59,181 money If you are using TrueMoney Wallet as a service solution, 470 00:28:59,721 --> 00:29:02,831 every wallet that it creates, every TrueMoney Wallet that it creates and 471 00:29:02,861 --> 00:29:05,701 issues to their users would have a payment pointer tied to that wallet. 472 00:29:06,121 --> 00:29:08,651 And their users would have IntelliJ also. 473 00:29:09,821 --> 00:29:13,691 So it's, it's, uh, yeah, it's kind of a huge network effect. 474 00:29:13,691 --> 00:29:15,371 And 475 00:29:15,371 --> 00:29:20,901 Lawil: then while you're still researching or implementing soon the 476 00:29:20,921 --> 00:29:24,961 e commerce use case, I almost want to say, what will be the first online 477 00:29:24,961 --> 00:29:27,371 shop where you can test it or use it? 478 00:29:27,421 --> 00:29:29,731 Uchi: So there are a couple of options that we're looking at. 479 00:29:29,791 --> 00:29:33,371 So, uh, the first option. 480 00:29:34,201 --> 00:29:39,521 It's a digital goods platform, the logistics for, for that, it's, it's less. 481 00:29:39,711 --> 00:29:43,481 So people can buy a digital goods with their IntelliJ wallet. 482 00:29:43,671 --> 00:29:47,861 Or to make a decision about which one we're going with, we're going to share. 483 00:29:48,251 --> 00:29:52,011 And also something else that I think will be interesting is the Shopify play. 484 00:29:52,371 --> 00:29:56,441 I worked at Shopify, so I still have some friends there. 485 00:29:56,441 --> 00:30:01,991 And I think, yeah, IntelliJ for Shopify, for enabling open 486 00:30:01,991 --> 00:30:04,101 payments for Shopify merchants. 487 00:30:04,111 --> 00:30:07,461 And yeah, yeah. 488 00:30:08,416 --> 00:30:09,316 Lawil: That's how they're listening. 489 00:30:12,676 --> 00:30:13,046 Uchi: Yeah. 490 00:30:13,256 --> 00:30:18,986 Imagine that all Shopify stores have pay with interledger enabled, uh, in them and 491 00:30:19,036 --> 00:30:24,176 all users that have an interledger wallet, regardless of what country they are based 492 00:30:24,176 --> 00:30:29,273 in, or regardless of what country or what platform they are on, can basically just 493 00:30:29,273 --> 00:30:35,956 buy any product from any Shopify And then the merchant gets settled in the currency 494 00:30:35,956 --> 00:30:38,306 that they've chosen, uh, to be settled in. 495 00:30:38,306 --> 00:30:39,676 I think that would be a game changer. 496 00:30:40,366 --> 00:30:44,436 Lawil: Because you're mentioning it, um, or you're calling it a game changer. 497 00:30:44,446 --> 00:30:46,246 How important will this technology be? 498 00:30:46,756 --> 00:30:50,226 So what values G Money planning on, uh, contributing to the 499 00:30:50,226 --> 00:30:51,966 payment space or the fintech space? 500 00:30:52,616 --> 00:30:53,476 Can you share more? 501 00:30:53,866 --> 00:31:01,156 Uchi: So, yeah, today G Money, our focus is really to enable, uh, efficient cross 502 00:31:01,156 --> 00:31:03,966 border payouts and also disbursements. 503 00:31:04,016 --> 00:31:08,406 And we work mostly with emerging platforms, financial institutions, 504 00:31:08,416 --> 00:31:13,246 creator communities, and we provide APIs and also platforms for them to do that. 505 00:31:13,476 --> 00:31:17,126 But I mean, the future of all of this is. 506 00:31:17,791 --> 00:31:22,301 An intersection of the community aspect, which is Nigel Hacks and 507 00:31:22,301 --> 00:31:26,171 Africa Hacks Award Innovation League to like the payment space. 508 00:31:26,561 --> 00:31:28,901 And there are a few opportunities that we see there. 509 00:31:29,291 --> 00:31:31,911 So one of the opportunities that we see is. 510 00:31:32,851 --> 00:31:40,391 Uh, using the community side of things to nurture talents that would help build the 511 00:31:40,391 --> 00:31:43,341 future of payments within Chimoney, right? 512 00:31:43,341 --> 00:31:48,571 So a lot of the team members that we have at, uh, Chimoney. 513 00:31:48,916 --> 00:31:51,916 They are from the Nigel house community, right? 514 00:31:51,916 --> 00:31:56,346 So I've worked with them at several hackathons and then I know like the 515 00:31:56,346 --> 00:31:59,906 quality of their work, how motivated they are and things like that. 516 00:31:59,906 --> 00:32:04,086 So we bring them on board to build with us at Tremoney. 517 00:32:04,516 --> 00:32:08,566 And also one of the things we're seeing is Uh, positioning 518 00:32:08,566 --> 00:32:13,136 Chimoney as an infrastructure for others to launch payment plays. 519 00:32:13,536 --> 00:32:18,146 So, there's a company today that, uh, uses Chimoney to run all of their 520 00:32:18,496 --> 00:32:21,286 cross border payment, uh, uh, solution. 521 00:32:21,576 --> 00:32:25,776 So they collect payments from U. 522 00:32:25,776 --> 00:32:26,066 S. 523 00:32:26,096 --> 00:32:28,086 and Canadian users powered by Chimoney. 524 00:32:28,446 --> 00:32:31,976 And then they are able to disburse to local currencies also using 525 00:32:31,986 --> 00:32:34,456 Chimoney's, uh, payment trails, right? 526 00:32:34,456 --> 00:32:36,416 So, we want to enable this use case. 527 00:32:36,836 --> 00:32:37,136 Right. 528 00:32:37,146 --> 00:32:41,276 For folks within the community aspect of things. 529 00:32:41,296 --> 00:32:46,006 So Ninja hacks, Africa hacks, and the rest of them, and, uh, those that 530 00:32:46,006 --> 00:32:49,451 want to launch startups, providing them with a FinTech in a box. 531 00:32:49,881 --> 00:32:54,831 To basically get compliance, uh, KYC and KYB all within one 532 00:32:54,831 --> 00:32:56,931 platform and to go live faster. 533 00:32:56,931 --> 00:32:58,551 And that's like the direction that we're going. 534 00:32:58,551 --> 00:32:58,681 That's 535 00:32:58,681 --> 00:32:59,321 Lawil: extremely impressive. 536 00:32:59,911 --> 00:33:00,281 Uchi: Yeah. 537 00:33:00,391 --> 00:33:05,231 So it's, uh, both the several countries in Africa and also U. 538 00:33:05,231 --> 00:33:05,371 S. 539 00:33:05,401 --> 00:33:05,981 and Canada. 540 00:33:05,991 --> 00:33:12,476 So the way it's structured is that we have entities In the U. 541 00:33:12,476 --> 00:33:12,636 S. 542 00:33:12,666 --> 00:33:17,246 Canada and some African countries, and we work with regulators in 543 00:33:17,566 --> 00:33:23,436 some of these countries to get the appropriate licensing and compliance 544 00:33:23,436 --> 00:33:26,546 in place, we're then able to provide. 545 00:33:27,171 --> 00:33:32,371 solutions to other platforms to go live in this market without them 546 00:33:32,371 --> 00:33:36,031 having to like, do all of the, all of the complicated work of getting their 547 00:33:36,031 --> 00:33:37,541 own license and things like that. 548 00:33:37,871 --> 00:33:42,871 So yeah, regulations and compliance is at the forefront 549 00:33:43,241 --> 00:33:44,481 of everything we do at Shimony. 550 00:33:44,901 --> 00:33:47,091 Lawil: Is that also, are part of the payment rules then also 551 00:33:47,091 --> 00:33:49,481 done with the incorporation with the intellectual protocol? 552 00:33:49,651 --> 00:33:53,781 Uchi: Oh yeah, so Yes, with the IntelliJ protocol, we are very, 553 00:33:53,781 --> 00:33:58,531 very excited for about the work we're doing within this space. 554 00:33:58,531 --> 00:34:03,431 So we're part of the phase one financial services grant. 555 00:34:03,811 --> 00:34:08,941 So we're able to do some research and development and discovery into like 556 00:34:08,941 --> 00:34:15,331 the compliance aspect of things and how IntelliJ fits into the ecosystem. 557 00:34:15,501 --> 00:34:18,741 For the listeners, IntelliJ is an amazing technology, right? 558 00:34:20,171 --> 00:34:26,381 Just connects so much and has the potential to unlock a lot of value for 559 00:34:26,381 --> 00:34:30,391 different countries and also enhance financial inclusion, economic empowerment. 560 00:34:30,691 --> 00:34:35,021 So we're very excited to be able to build, uh, with the IntelliJ technology. 561 00:34:35,021 --> 00:34:40,471 So what we're doing specifically with IntelliJ is to connect all T Money 562 00:34:40,471 --> 00:34:45,591 wallets to IntelliJ such that all T Money wallets would have an IntelliJ payment 563 00:34:45,601 --> 00:34:50,041 pointer and we'll be able to IntelliJ. 564 00:34:50,091 --> 00:34:50,671 They can. 565 00:34:51,236 --> 00:34:55,886 Uh, use Gmoney wallets to pay for web monetization and also 566 00:34:55,886 --> 00:34:58,216 pay for products and services. 567 00:34:58,406 --> 00:35:04,046 And I think that's like where, like the future lies, being able to pay for 568 00:35:04,456 --> 00:35:08,446 a product on an e commerce platform powered by OpenClement, regardless 569 00:35:08,446 --> 00:35:10,316 of what country you're based in. 570 00:35:10,316 --> 00:35:11,906 And this is all powered by IntelliJ. 571 00:35:12,196 --> 00:35:15,806 Lawil: If you would compare your own journey with the evolution of the sector, 572 00:35:16,586 --> 00:35:20,116 go back in time and think about the fact that you're now leading Gmoney. 573 00:35:20,531 --> 00:35:23,941 Um, are there any successes or then learning moments you could share? 574 00:35:24,371 --> 00:35:24,721 Uchi: Okay. 575 00:35:24,771 --> 00:35:25,091 Yeah. 576 00:35:25,351 --> 00:35:29,821 So on a personal side, I think, uh, resilience and grit, uh, 577 00:35:29,851 --> 00:35:33,691 have been helpful for me, right? 578 00:35:33,691 --> 00:35:40,191 Because the journey of bringing from Nigeria, it was like a great experience 579 00:35:40,201 --> 00:35:41,951 growing up like family and all that. 580 00:35:42,001 --> 00:35:46,011 And I felt like when I moved to Canada, it was just starting all over again. 581 00:35:46,581 --> 00:35:46,951 Right. 582 00:35:47,011 --> 00:35:52,421 So even as a student, and I, one of the most challenging times in my 583 00:35:52,421 --> 00:35:58,031 journey was, uh, when there was a change in government in, in Nigeria. 584 00:35:58,261 --> 00:36:02,801 So like I mentioned, I had a government funded scholarship and 585 00:36:03,271 --> 00:36:09,021 when governments change, especially in some emerging markets, the policies 586 00:36:09,021 --> 00:36:13,741 of the previous administration, there's kind of no continuity, right? 587 00:36:13,821 --> 00:36:14,761 So in that case. 588 00:36:15,186 --> 00:36:18,416 The new administration basically just shut down the scholarship and that 589 00:36:18,416 --> 00:36:23,526 meant that the tuition and a lot of the promises and the everything that the 590 00:36:23,526 --> 00:36:28,751 scholarship entailed was just in the drain and There was a time I was not 591 00:36:28,751 --> 00:36:33,971 able to pay my tuition and I got a letter from the school that, uh, I had to stop 592 00:36:34,011 --> 00:36:38,361 school and that meant that I would lose my student status and my visa and I 593 00:36:38,361 --> 00:36:41,101 would be deported back, uh, to Nigeria. 594 00:36:41,321 --> 00:36:48,071 Sorry, just remember one night I was just like so emotional and crying, but I 595 00:36:48,071 --> 00:36:49,581 didn't want to just be in that situation. 596 00:36:49,581 --> 00:36:55,971 So I wrote a very Thoughtful and, and, uh, uh, emotional letter to the school's 597 00:36:56,001 --> 00:36:57,741 president explaining the situation. 598 00:36:58,141 --> 00:37:01,831 And in that letter, I was able to kind of also provide a 599 00:37:01,871 --> 00:37:03,691 solution of how I pay my tuition. 600 00:37:04,201 --> 00:37:08,291 So I created a payment plan that I was going to pay like a certain 601 00:37:08,291 --> 00:37:10,641 amount every two weeks and all that. 602 00:37:10,681 --> 00:37:14,961 And that's how, I mean, thankful to the school, they approved it. 603 00:37:15,251 --> 00:37:17,341 And I was able to continue like. 604 00:37:17,741 --> 00:37:19,551 School and finish school. 605 00:37:19,551 --> 00:37:23,101 And before graduation, I got an offer to work at Shopify. 606 00:37:23,591 --> 00:37:29,561 So I mean, the point is that resilience and great and a staying power is 607 00:37:29,561 --> 00:37:32,001 important in the journey, right? 608 00:37:32,161 --> 00:37:37,121 And just being able to press on and continue. 609 00:37:37,471 --> 00:37:41,921 Despite the challenges of life is something that I think has 610 00:37:42,021 --> 00:37:44,461 helped me in my journey so far. 611 00:37:44,831 --> 00:37:47,751 And then on the career side of things. 612 00:37:47,751 --> 00:37:53,041 So my career has gone through like different phases, right? 613 00:37:53,041 --> 00:37:59,411 So I started out, uh, doing computer science, uh, and psychology, but I, then 614 00:37:59,451 --> 00:38:05,401 when I was in school, I branched out a little bit to do a user experience design. 615 00:38:05,871 --> 00:38:11,871 So my degree was actually a combination of UI US design plus computer science. 616 00:38:12,391 --> 00:38:16,231 And, but I ultimately didn't like working computer science. 617 00:38:16,251 --> 00:38:19,541 I worked in like Uh, software engineering. 618 00:38:20,101 --> 00:38:24,751 And I think the lesson there is that there's always going to be 619 00:38:24,751 --> 00:38:28,221 like turns to different directions. 620 00:38:28,941 --> 00:38:31,621 There are going to be distractions. 621 00:38:31,651 --> 00:38:34,561 There are going to be challenges. 622 00:38:34,601 --> 00:38:40,451 We might like explore some opportunities, but ultimately still. 623 00:38:40,861 --> 00:38:47,051 Continuing and also knowing and staying true to like the career goal. 624 00:38:47,051 --> 00:38:48,461 It's a super helpful. 625 00:38:48,681 --> 00:38:52,741 And I mean, for payment, especially I, I started doing payments at, 626 00:38:52,841 --> 00:38:55,691 uh, at a bank here in Canada. 627 00:38:55,721 --> 00:38:56,971 So the Royal bank of Canada. 628 00:38:57,011 --> 00:39:01,881 So 2016, 2017, they brought us on to work on. 629 00:39:02,786 --> 00:39:06,636 Blockchain for client identity verification. 630 00:39:07,106 --> 00:39:08,716 So we, we did that. 631 00:39:08,876 --> 00:39:11,456 And then since then, I've just been in the payment space. 632 00:39:12,066 --> 00:39:13,716 So, I mean, it's been a journey, right? 633 00:39:13,726 --> 00:39:18,886 From, from Nigeria, where everyone wanted me to be a doctor, to going 634 00:39:18,936 --> 00:39:23,476 hard on computer science, to branching out a little bit in user experience 635 00:39:23,476 --> 00:39:27,756 design, going back to like hardcore programming and then financial 636 00:39:27,756 --> 00:39:31,876 services, community and developer relations, and now being a founder. 637 00:39:32,111 --> 00:39:33,091 Lawil: It's been a journey. 638 00:39:33,161 --> 00:39:37,741 Um, I mean, it sounds as if you've gone through a very impressive journey as well. 639 00:39:38,231 --> 00:39:42,971 And you actually developed a lot of skills that are necessary to now be a founder. 640 00:39:43,621 --> 00:39:44,401 Uchi: Yeah, that's correct. 641 00:39:44,401 --> 00:39:44,881 Yes. 642 00:39:45,201 --> 00:39:45,621 Yes. 643 00:39:45,651 --> 00:39:51,591 Uh, being a founder, it's, uh, as you know, wearing multiple hats. 644 00:39:52,091 --> 00:39:52,381 Right. 645 00:39:52,381 --> 00:39:59,261 So that journey, uh, has really helped me to learn and explore multiple things. 646 00:39:59,261 --> 00:40:03,461 So I'm able to like, Do marketing, I'm able to like 647 00:40:03,751 --> 00:40:06,251 build and work on the product. 648 00:40:06,981 --> 00:40:10,681 I'm able to like have like investor discussions, partner discussions, 649 00:40:10,681 --> 00:40:13,871 sales, compliance, and things like that. 650 00:40:13,871 --> 00:40:19,481 So just that full experience from the bank to a big tech to a small tech 651 00:40:19,511 --> 00:40:24,901 company, all of those kind of helped me be the founder that I am today. 652 00:40:25,001 --> 00:40:26,121 I think I'm really. 653 00:40:26,476 --> 00:40:29,696 Really grateful for the opportunity to be on that journey. 654 00:40:30,236 --> 00:40:32,806 Lawil: Could you tell us more about the plans of Chimoney 655 00:40:32,816 --> 00:40:34,296 for this year and next year? 656 00:40:34,976 --> 00:40:36,756 Like what can we look forward to? 657 00:40:37,086 --> 00:40:43,296 Uchi: In the next 12 months, we're looking to launch a prototype of, uh, 658 00:40:43,526 --> 00:40:46,266 the Chimoney IntelliJ enabled wallets. 659 00:40:46,366 --> 00:40:49,646 So that's the phase two of the financial services grant. 660 00:40:49,996 --> 00:40:51,776 So we're looking to go live with that. 661 00:40:51,816 --> 00:40:52,226 And. 662 00:40:52,676 --> 00:40:56,906 What that will unlock is anyone that has a Chimoney wallet will be able 663 00:40:56,906 --> 00:40:59,596 to get an IntelliJ payment pointer. 664 00:41:00,306 --> 00:41:03,866 They will be able to fund that IntelliJ wallet. 665 00:41:03,926 --> 00:41:06,326 They can withdraw from that IntelliJ wallet to their bank 666 00:41:06,326 --> 00:41:08,486 account in 130 countries. 667 00:41:09,196 --> 00:41:13,686 They can use the payment pointer for web monetization, both accepting 668 00:41:13,686 --> 00:41:18,006 funds to their wallet and also paying websites on web monetization. 669 00:41:18,046 --> 00:41:21,296 So we're very excited about, uh, uh, that roadmap. 670 00:41:21,496 --> 00:41:26,806 And on the general true money side, one of the major items in our road 671 00:41:26,806 --> 00:41:31,606 map is to continue to expand our payment infrastructure and on board. 672 00:41:32,096 --> 00:41:34,026 More companies to use our API. 673 00:41:34,386 --> 00:41:38,436 So we have, uh, three companies currently integrating with us 674 00:41:38,546 --> 00:41:40,636 and across different use cases. 675 00:41:40,636 --> 00:41:46,676 So we want to get, uh, additional companies to launch fintechs and launch 676 00:41:46,676 --> 00:41:51,636 reward platforms and launch payment plays, uh, with, with cheer monies. 677 00:41:51,676 --> 00:41:53,791 Uh, infrastructure. 678 00:41:53,831 --> 00:41:55,611 And I mean, the roadmap is robust. 679 00:41:55,611 --> 00:41:56,441 It's exciting. 680 00:41:56,711 --> 00:41:58,171 And there is some AI in there also. 681 00:41:58,701 --> 00:42:00,341 Lawil: It's exciting for the AI now. 682 00:42:02,071 --> 00:42:02,491 I want to know. 683 00:42:04,321 --> 00:42:08,171 Because it's something that has always, um, triggered an extreme interest. 684 00:42:08,641 --> 00:42:11,451 Um, ever since I became aware of this space. 685 00:42:12,161 --> 00:42:14,141 Uh, the digital identity and everything. 686 00:42:14,201 --> 00:42:16,141 Could you tell me more about that? 687 00:42:16,831 --> 00:42:20,741 Uchi: I can speak to that actually, because, uh, before Cheer Money, I, I 688 00:42:20,741 --> 00:42:25,411 worked in, in the digital identity space for a bit, uh, so there's something 689 00:42:25,411 --> 00:42:28,591 in Canada called, uh, Verified Me. 690 00:42:29,381 --> 00:42:32,091 Oh, it's now rebranded to government, government login. 691 00:42:32,671 --> 00:42:37,541 And I was working on a team that built that, uh, in one of my previous roles. 692 00:42:37,821 --> 00:42:41,311 And how that solution works was it's a blockchain powered. 693 00:42:42,586 --> 00:42:49,976 identity solution that connects to bank accounts and allows users to 694 00:42:50,156 --> 00:42:55,906 share the identity information and log in to government and other services 695 00:42:56,256 --> 00:42:58,176 with their bank account credentials. 696 00:42:58,526 --> 00:43:03,726 So it's pretty similar such that I can share my verified Information 697 00:43:04,086 --> 00:43:06,736 to banks, to anyone that wants it. 698 00:43:06,736 --> 00:43:09,136 So banks for mortgages and things like that. 699 00:43:09,166 --> 00:43:12,416 That's the kind of solution that AI would, uh, also enable. 700 00:43:13,166 --> 00:43:16,176 I mean, then it was more challenging to build something like that. 701 00:43:16,176 --> 00:43:19,986 But with AI, potentially it could be simpler because when AI has 702 00:43:20,046 --> 00:43:25,516 access to like, uh, the contests, uh, it can switch contests to 703 00:43:25,516 --> 00:43:27,926 like a different, uh, use case. 704 00:43:27,946 --> 00:43:35,646 So for example, if AI is connected to my bank, uh, contest, that information can 705 00:43:35,646 --> 00:43:43,226 be used for making decision for lending or even for making, uh, decisions about 706 00:43:43,266 --> 00:43:44,976 like mortgage and things like, like that. 707 00:43:44,976 --> 00:43:49,756 So I think that, uh, yes, AI definitely has a lot of potential 708 00:43:50,106 --> 00:43:55,056 in, uh, deployment space, and there are a lot of use cases that will be. 709 00:43:55,376 --> 00:43:56,206 We'll be enabled with AI. 710 00:43:56,916 --> 00:43:58,146 I don't know if that's helpful. 711 00:43:58,626 --> 00:43:59,416 Lawil: Yeah, absolutely. 712 00:43:59,416 --> 00:43:59,996 This was helpful. 713 00:44:00,086 --> 00:44:01,786 I mean, we're all here to learn something. 714 00:44:02,356 --> 00:44:05,416 Um, I do have one more question, which is very future related. 715 00:44:05,446 --> 00:44:09,346 If you would think about a financially equitable future, 716 00:44:09,656 --> 00:44:10,936 you can think of anything. 717 00:44:10,936 --> 00:44:13,226 I mean, we try to avoid flying cars and everything. 718 00:44:13,881 --> 00:44:15,901 Uh, but what would you wish for? 719 00:44:15,941 --> 00:44:16,821 What would that be? 720 00:44:16,871 --> 00:44:18,311 What would your future look like? 721 00:44:19,191 --> 00:44:19,461 Uchi: Yeah. 722 00:44:19,461 --> 00:44:24,481 So if I could think anything, yeah, anything that I could wish for in the 723 00:44:24,481 --> 00:44:29,791 future, I still think the, there's lots of opportunity to improve 724 00:44:30,161 --> 00:44:33,381 like the basic financial systems. 725 00:44:34,021 --> 00:44:40,221 I would, uh, provide or connect all job opportunities onto one platform. 726 00:44:40,981 --> 00:44:47,766 And, uh, Make it possible for people to complete a report on those jobs on the 727 00:44:47,786 --> 00:44:51,956 platform and also get paid and also spend. 728 00:44:52,376 --> 00:44:53,266 Within the platform. 729 00:44:53,266 --> 00:44:59,916 So more of a universal currency of sorts, uh, a, an interoperable 730 00:44:59,926 --> 00:45:06,096 currency that can be used for commerce, for employment, for food. 731 00:45:06,946 --> 00:45:12,146 And, uh, making that currency accessible and available to anyone in any way. 732 00:45:12,846 --> 00:45:16,916 I also like building the foundational layers, the foundational components 733 00:45:16,926 --> 00:45:18,916 of a digital nation, right? 734 00:45:18,946 --> 00:45:20,296 So that the. 735 00:45:20,746 --> 00:45:25,856 The core of the payment is built, the core of like food and ordering food 736 00:45:25,856 --> 00:45:30,956 is built, the core of like fashion and things like that are built in, right? 737 00:45:31,461 --> 00:45:34,191 At least people can transfer between themselves and other people within 738 00:45:34,191 --> 00:45:37,911 that nation or that platform are able to then build on top of the 739 00:45:38,041 --> 00:45:40,141 core or the foundation, right? 740 00:45:40,191 --> 00:45:46,391 So a, an infrastructure that allows people to build on top of it and 741 00:45:46,391 --> 00:45:48,121 then get value when they build. 742 00:45:48,991 --> 00:45:53,481 So it's more like a digital nation that is accessible, available. 743 00:45:53,721 --> 00:45:56,641 Extendable and, uh, interoperable. 744 00:45:56,971 --> 00:45:58,331 The, yeah, that's the, that's the vision. 745 00:46:02,301 --> 00:46:05,161 Lawil: Other than that, actually, I just wanted to thank you for being 746 00:46:05,161 --> 00:46:06,181 part of the future money podcast. 747 00:46:06,431 --> 00:46:06,621 Uchi: Yeah. 748 00:46:06,621 --> 00:46:08,261 Thank you so much for having me. 749 00:46:08,271 --> 00:46:11,401 It was really fun and engaging and inspiring. 750 00:46:15,161 --> 00:46:18,901 Lawil: Thank you for tuning into this episode of the future money podcast. 751 00:46:18,921 --> 00:46:22,371 For more information about the Intelligent Foundation, please visit Including 752 00:46:22,371 --> 00:46:26,451 published episodes, guest details, our crown programs, or other resources, 753 00:46:26,481 --> 00:46:28,581 please visit our website at intelledger. 754 00:46:28,631 --> 00:46:29,091 org. 755 00:46:29,511 --> 00:46:33,731 Also, please subscribe or follow us on CastPod, Spotify, Apple Music, 756 00:46:33,751 --> 00:46:35,461 or wherever you listen to your pods. 757 00:46:35,771 --> 00:46:38,651 And if so inclined, we would appreciate a rating and a review. 758 00:46:40,131 --> 00:46:42,571 Thank you for listening to this week's episode.